1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Obama says PA voters are bitter

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by ymc, Apr 11, 2008.

  1. Nolen

    Nolen Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    1,262
    realclearpolitics has all the latest PA polls (great site, btw, I'm impressed.)

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_democratic_primary-240.html

    RCP Average 04/09 - 04/14 - 49.8 41.2 Clinton +8.6
    Rasmussen 04/14 - 04/14 741 LV 50 41 Clinton +9.0
    SurveyUSA 04/12 - 04/14 638 LV 54 40 Clinton +14.0
    LA Times/Bloomberg 04/10 - 04/14 RV 46 41 Clinton +5.0
    Strategic Vision (R) 04/11 - 04/13 504 LV 49 40 Clinton +9.0
    Quinnipiac 04/09 - 04/13 2,103 LV 50 44 Clinton +6.0

    Sorry, I know the formatting doesn't carry over well, just check out the link for a clearer read.

    I think SUSA may be the most accurate outfit so far this season. (Has anyone done analysis of the accuracy of these various polls over the recent months?) SUSA nailed California when others had Obama with a win.

    I highly doubt Obama is down only 5 or 6 in PA, this week or last. I think SUSA was more accurate in it's poll last week when it showed Clinton with an 18 point win. What is really odd, this poll was taken after Bittergate and her lead still shrank in the SUSA poll from 18 to 14.

    The average of the most recent polls has Clinton winning by 8.6. I think SUSA is closer to the truth, and she'll win by 10 or 15.
     
  2. Refman

    Refman Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    312
    The corporation DID earn the money. They have to first earen the money to be taxed on it.

    This is a fundamental difference. Some people believe that companies and people earn money, and then they must pay some of it to government. Others believe that all money belongs to government and whatever they deem to let the people that earned it keep is a gift to that person.
     
  3. Refman

    Refman Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    312
    Not true. AGI is your gross. You are taxed on taxable income, which takes into account your allowable deductions.
     
  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,789
    Likes Received:
    3,708
    do you think a company that has expensed all its costs and is paying something like 1 to 5% of taxes on its revenues is equivalent to an individual paying taxes?
     
  5. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,809
    Likes Received:
    20,467
    I will agree they earned the money, but the argument is that they deserve certain tax breaks from the govt. that other people don't.

    That isn't pure capitalism, and it's giving corporations a break that individuals don't get.
     
  6. weslinder

    weslinder Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    291
    No it didn't. A corporation cannot make money, and it cannot pay taxes. People made the money, and were taxed on all of it, twice on the amount that portion that they withdrew for themselves. A corporation is simply a partnership with some legal protection for the owners. Basically, a corporate income tax is a bribe to the government to protect the business owners from many personal liabilities.
     
  7. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,809
    Likes Received:
    20,467
    The corporation would not exist without services provided by the govt. like mail, interstates, etc.

    They should pay their fair share of those expenses.
     
  8. weslinder

    weslinder Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    291
    They do. Twice if the owners choose to take any of their earned profits for themselves.
     
  9. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,809
    Likes Received:
    20,467
    The individuals pay their fair share, the corporation which also profits as an entity by those govt. services should also pay their fair share. They also require extra man hours from the govt. in order to oversee various regulations and safety concerns.
     
  10. Refman

    Refman Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    312
    I never said they were the same thing. You are now getting into what deductions should be allowable for corps and for individuals. Anytime you can itemize deductions or take the standard deduction, you are not being taxed on your gross income.
     
  11. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,789
    Likes Received:
    3,708
    you're missing the spirit of the point.

    people hear 35% and they think of their personal situation and its drastically different from corporate taxes.
     
    #251 pgabriel, Apr 16, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2008
  12. bnb

    bnb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    6,992
    Likes Received:
    316
    In the US -- Corporate taxes are pretty high. Personal taxes are quite low. Compared to most industrialized nations.

    Comparing percentages to gross is just silly. Your employer does not gross up your 'revenue' to reflect the resources that go into your office space, computer, supplies etc. So your personal 'gross' bears absolutely no relationship to a corporation's gross revenue. Most of the expenses related to earning that income have already been deducted.

    (that's not to say there aren't some goofy corporate or personal tax breaks out there).
     
  13. Refman

    Refman Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    312
    What? You are so incredibly wrong it isn't even funny. Corporations make money. Every corporation has to file an income statement showing what their income is. Every corporation pays taxes on that income. Then income that is distributed to shareholders is taxed to them as personal earnings.

    A corporation is far from being a simple partnership with some legal protections. Those entities are LLCs. There is an entire corporate tax structure, and the corporations itself must file a tax return.
     

Share This Page