Wow...just wow. That group may be established terrorists and criminals but the ugly precedent Obama will continue is going to haunt our nation for years to come. I do not like his stance once bit. It's a good thing that tortured confessions extracted in Pig Latin are admissible in an American court of law.
BULLLLLLSHIIIIITTTT.......... What an idiotic thing to say........ You know you are a redneck when.......... Way to fall for the propaganda dude..........Religious and social... That post embarrasses me as an American ......
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. [rquoter]STEPHANOPOULOS: You also agreed on Guantanamo when you say you want to shut it down. You say you're still going to shut it down. Is it turning out to be harder than you expected, will you get that done in the first 100 days? OBAMA: It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize and we are going to get it done but part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom who may be very dangerous who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication. And some of the evidence against them may be tainted even though it's true. And so how to balance creating a process that adheres to rule of law, habeas corpus, basic principles of Anglo American legal system, by doing it in a way that doesn't result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up. STEPHANOPOULOS: So not necessarily first 100 days. OBAMA: That's a challenge. I think it's going to take some time and our legal teams are working in consultation with our national security apparatus as we speak to help design exactly what we need to do. But I don't want to be ambiguous about this. We are going to close Guantanamo and we are going to make sure that the procedures we set up are ones that abide by our constitution. That is not only the right thing to do but it actually has to be part of our broader national security strategy because we will send a message to the world that we are serious about our values.[/rquoter]
wow, thanks basso. again, he* amazingly consistent. * = actually "he" here could refer to either Obama or basso.
Thanks for posting that, but it sure seems far different than things staying the same. First of all, Obama is going to close the shame that is Gitmo. He also says that prisoners there will be dealt with in ways that adhere to our constitution. It seems that would be a lot easier except that some of the evidence has been tainted presumably by Bush and his rogue policies on the matter.
I wonder if we can grant them POW status which would allow them to be held until the end of the war, which for a war on terrorism means indefinately. While they might never be released at least they aren't held completely outside the law and their status can still be updated as new evidence comes out about them.
The biggest problem, despite the fact that we've held these guys like this, is the men themselves. These guys aren't normal family men that had mistaken identity, or guys that went to a couple of meetings with a radical cleric. These guys, for the most part, are the baddest of the bad. These are the guys that really, really want to kill you in any way possible. What do you do with them? Put them on trial? Release them back to their home countries? What happens if you release them then they kill some folks, where does the "black eye" fall then? I'm not certain of the solution. The current situation is crummy, but I'm not sure of the better alternative either. My best guess that the first thing they should do is put them on trial. Give them legal council and put them on trial. Even if its a military court. Some kind of due process is needed and should be established. I wouldn't even mind Gitmo that much if all these guys had a trial and were sentenced to that place.
I read this article from the Washington Post regarding torture of a detainee at Guantanomo. It also mentions some of the difficulties with what to do with the detainees. Its a long article so I'm just going to post the first page but here is the link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28649218/ Detainee was tortured, U.S. official says Trial overseer cites 'abusive' methods against suspect in Sept. 11 attacks By Bob Woodward WASHINGTON - The top Bush administration official in charge of deciding whether to bring Guantanamo Bay detainees to trial has concluded that the U.S. military tortured a Saudi national who allegedly planned to participate in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, interrogating him with techniques that included sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold, leaving him in a "life-threatening condition." "We tortured [Mohammed al-Qahtani," said Susan J. Crawford, in her first interview since being named convening authority of military commissions by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in February 2007. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case" for prosecution. Crawford, a retired judge who served as general counsel for the Army during the Reagan administration and as Pentagon inspector general when Dick Cheney was secretary of defense, is the first senior Bush administration official responsible for reviewing practices at Guantanamo to publicly state that a detainee was tortured. 'Abusive and uncalled for' Crawford, 61, said the combination of the interrogation techniques, their duration and the impact on Qahtani's health led to her conclusion. "The techniques they used were all authorized, but the manner in which they applied them was overly aggressive and too persistent. . . . You think of torture, you think of some horrendous physical act done to an individual. This was not any one particular act; this was just a combination of things that had a medical impact on him, that hurt his health. It was abusive and uncalled for. And coercive. Clearly coercive. It was that medical impact that pushed me over the edge" to call it torture, she said. Military prosecutors said in November that they would seek to refile charges against Qahtani, 30, based on subsequent interrogations that did not employ harsh techniques. But Crawford, who dismissed war crimes charges against him in May 2008, said in the interview that she would not allow the prosecution to go forward. Qahtani was denied entry into the United States a month before the Sept. 11 attacks and was allegedly planning to be the plot's 20th hijacker. He was later captured in Afghanistan and transported to Guantanamo in January 2002. His interrogation took place over 50 days from November 2002 to January 2003, though he was held in isolation until April 2003. "For 160 days his only contact was with the interrogators," said Crawford, who personally reviewed Qahtani's interrogation records and other military documents. "Forty-eight of 54 consecutive days of 18-to-20-hour interrogations. Standing naked in front of a female agent. Subject to strip searches. And insults to his mother and sister." At one point he was threatened with a military working dog named Zeus, according to a military report. Qahtani "was forced to wear a woman's bra and had a thong placed on his head during the course of his interrogation" and "was told that his mother and sister were whores." With a leash tied to his chains, he was led around the room "and forced to perform a series of dog tricks," the report shows. The interrogation, portions of which have been previously described by other news organizations, including The Washington Post, was so intense that Qahtani had to be hospitalized twice at Guantanamo with bradycardia, a condition in which the heart rate falls below 60 beats a minute and which in extreme cases can lead to heart failure and death. At one point Qahtani's heart rate dropped to 35 beats per minute, the record shows. Many challenges for Obama administration The Qahtani case underscores the challenges facing the incoming Obama administration as it seeks to close the controversial detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, including the dilemmas posed by individuals considered too dangerous to release but whose legal status is uncertain. FBI "clean teams," which gather evidence without using information gained during controversial interrogations, have established that Qahtani intended to join the 2001 hijackers. Mohamed Atta, the plot's leader, who died steering American Airlines Flight 11 into the World Trade Center, went to the Orlando airport to meet Qahtani on Aug. 4, 2001, but the young Saudi was denied entry by a suspicious immigration inspector. "There's no doubt in my mind he would've been on one of those planes had he gained access to the country in August 2001," Crawford said of Qahtani, who remains detained at Guantanamo. "He's a muscle hijacker. . . . He's a very dangerous man. What do you do with him now if you don't charge him and try him? I would be hesitant to say, 'Let him go.' " That, she said, is a decision that President-elect Barack Obama will have to make. Obama repeated Sunday that he intends to close the Guantanamo center but acknowledged the challenges involved. "It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize," Obama said on ABC's "This Week," "and we are going to get it done, but part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom may be very dangerous, who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication. And some of the evidence against them may be tainted, even though it's true."
This partly explains why we can't just prosecute Bush cabinet members willy nilly. Doing so would unravel all the dirty little edges Obama has to clean up.
an example of the baddest of the bad. this was a 14/15 year old kid that was picked up based on allegations that at the age of 11 he was several thousand miles away from where he actually was and part of a terrorist cell. post
Crawford is a lifelong Republican appointed by Bush by the way. So it isn't some left wing Bush hater who's doing the talking here. The guy also at one point had his heartbeat drop to 35 beats a minute. http://www.time.com/time/press_releases/article/0,8599,1071230,00.html The guy was tortured and nearly died. So tell me basso should the law apply to all?
^ Probably the same crew who set up the giant clusterf-k in the first place. LOOK AT ALL OUR POOPZ OBAMA GOOD LUCK TRYING TO CLEAN IT UP LULZ!
Actually, the only thing he said is that he would be a failure if he didn't close it during his first term. That doesn't say anything about when he hopes to close it - it maybe Wednesday, for all you know based on the quote. You need to re-learn basic English.
This is the second time you've posted something and acted like it was Obama doing the same thing as the Bush administration and talking about the difficult situation with some of the detainees there. Just like last time, it's a crazy tactic on your part, because the only reason the situation is difficult is because of your buddies, Cheney, Bush and their administration which tortured or screwed it up. Then on top of that the facts if not the articles themselves don't present things the same way that you are trying to. So the articles you post show that things are worse because of Cheney, Bush and their policies. The mess in both articles is only a mess because of the Cheney/Bush administration. And they show Obama to actually be sticking to his word, and taking definite steps to change what you claim isn't changing. It's a strange tactic for you to do this.
