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Obama Has Lowest Spending Record of Any Recent President

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Rashmon, May 23, 2012.

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  1. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    It took several (3.5) days for the package to arrive.
    We added several (3.5) more names to the list.
    a federal union of the several (3.5) states
     
    #41 Bandwagoner, May 25, 2012
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    I love how this is causing the right wing to go crazy. So hilarious. They just can't face the fact that the narrative they have been trying to sell is a big phony lie.
     
    #42 Sweet Lou 4 2, May 25, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  3. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    Image provided by http://hotair.com/.

    From the "About" page:

    Hot Air was launched on April 24, 2006, with Michelle Malkin as founder/CEO. Since then, the site has become one of the largest right-of-center blogs on the Internet.


    Seriously ... do ANY of the teabagged folks even bother thinking for themselves? You just say "oh no! the liberals have made an argument! I must go and look at all the teabagged blogs to find a rebuttal! I don't even care if it's a factual rebuttal! I just need my marching orders, and I will venture to clutchfans.net and show those liberals that OMG OBAMAS IS SOCLIAIZMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!"
     
    #43 thadeus, May 25, 2012
  4. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    You failed to counter any factual arguments in that post (or even realize that it's full of facts). Do your panties get in a wad when people link ThinkProgress, HuffingtonPost, TPM, or Politico (which goes on constantly here)? Commodore and bnb even argued some of the same facts in that image before that image was created. Your argument that a fact is not a fact because it's posted on a conservative blog defies basic logic. Unreal blind hatred fail.
     
    #44 tallanvor, May 25, 2012
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    The FY20009 budget was passed by a Dem Congress and signed by Obama in March. Bush never agreed to it.

    And then the "one-time stimulus" year gets set as the new Bush baseline.

    Pretty clever.
     
    #45 Commodore, May 25, 2012
  6. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

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    It's been completely wrong since about 1970, but facts don't really matter to our national discourse. A few educated people on the internet are not the ones who will overwhelmingly determine the next POTUS though, so the OBAMA IS TEH BIG SPENDZ! will probably still work as a soundbite and ad nauseum FOX cycle.
     
    #46 B-Bob, May 25, 2012
  7. Major

    Major Member

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    The FY 2009 budget was also agreed upon in large part before Obama ever came into office.

    What part of THIS STATEMENT IS NOT IN ANY WAY TRUE does not compute with you? Can you not read? Do you not care? Do you just pretend facts you don't like are not true?
     
    #47 Major, May 25, 2012
  8. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Yeah, Bush just wrote it, Haha. What a misconstruction of the truth you try to pass off here.
     
    #48 Sweet Lou 4 2, May 25, 2012
  9. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    Have you even read this thread?
     
    #49 thadeus, May 25, 2012
  10. BetterThanEver

    BetterThanEver Member

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    The jobs chart in the hotair graph is out of date. Here is an updated one. If we slide the jobs line to September '09 for fiscal year stats. It looks even worse for your boy Dubya. if we slide the line to fiscal 2009 like Michelle Malkin, the job growth is -500k to -400k per month for Dubya. Obama's run would shows 100k-200k per month in the last 12 months. It's a swing up of 600k/month job from Dubya to Obama.

    [​IMG]
     
    #50 BetterThanEver, May 25, 2012
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  11. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    From PolitFact:

    ...
    It didn’t take long for our ruling to become caught up in the political wars. Our assessment was tweeted by White House press secretary Jay Carney, while some critics assailed Nutting’s article and, in some cases, our analysis of it.

    The most common criticism focuses on how to divvy up the responsibility for outlays made in fiscal year 2009. Should those outlays be counted on George W. Bush’s balance sheet or Obama’s?

    Nutting’s method was to assign spending for the first fiscal year following a president’s inauguration to the preceding president. In his column, Nutting argued that "what people forget (or never knew) is that the first year of every presidential term starts with a budget approved by the previous administration and Congress. The president only begins to shape the budget in his second year. It takes time to develop a budget and steer it through Congress — especially in these days of congressional gridlock. The 2009 fiscal year, which Republicans count as part of Obama’s legacy, began four months before Obama moved into the White House. The major spending decisions in the 2009 fiscal year were made by George W. Bush and the previous Congress."

    The critics countered that the transition between Bush and Obama, which came amid a severe economic downturn, did not fit the historical pattern. While Nutting tried to account for this by re-assigning $140 billion of fiscal 2009 spending from Bush to Obama -- specifically the stimulus bill, the expansion of a children’s health-care program and other appropriations bills passed in the spring of 2009 -- the critics say that that’s not enough.

    And because spending spiked dramatically in the crucial period between 2008 and 2009, figuring out where exactly to draw the line between the two presidents has an enormous impact on the results of any analysis of federal spending.

    The process of determining who has the responsibility for specific spending initiatives quickly becomes complicated, particularly given the need to compare what quirks may have happened not just during the Bush-Obama transition but also during the transitions between the presidents going to Eisenhower. (This historical comparison was crucial to the Facebook post we analyzed, but we aren’t aware of any critics going back to give similar scrutiny to any of the transitions prior to Bush-Obama.) Nutting’s methodlology is pretty straightfoward, but any number of adjustments could be made to fine tune it. Deciding which of these tweaks to make and which to ignore isn’t a scientific process. It involves judgment calls about which reasonable people can disagree.

    Two final clarifications. One, contrary to what many e-mailers and Twitter and Facebook users appear to believe, neither Nutting’s column nor our analysis assigned the entire $787 billion stimulus to Bush.

    First, the stimulus was not all spending; it was roughly one-third tax cuts, which wouldn't be attributed to either president in a spending chart. Second, the measurement we used was outlays, which refers to money actually spent during that fiscal year. Only a portion of the stimulus was spent in fiscal 2009. Finally, as we noted, Nutting did reassign $140 billion in 2009 spending from Bush to Obama.

    Also, our item was not actually a fact-check of Nutting's entire column. Instead, we rated two elements of the Facebook post together -- one statement drawn from Nutting’s column, and the quote from Romney.

    We haven't seen anything that justifies changing our rating of the Facebook post. But people can have legitimate differences about how to assign the spending, so we wanted to pass along some of the comments.
    ...

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m.../25/lots-heat-and-some-light-obamas-spending/
     
    #51 Rashmon, May 25, 2012
  12. adoo

    adoo Member

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    that makes as much sense as W rationalizing that the permenent tax cut will pay for itself
     
    #52 adoo, May 25, 2012
  13. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    Didn't GDP start growing again in 2009? GDP was actually higher for Obama for 2010 - 2013.

    To me this thread just shows how worthless statistics can be. We can paint them however we want.
     
    #53 juicystream, May 25, 2012
  14. JeopardE

    JeopardE Member

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    Why doesn't it make sense? All you have to do is get rid of that turd called the F-35 and you've already made a big dent in defense spending.
     
    #54 JeopardE, May 25, 2012
  15. Major

    Major Member

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    Yes - but government doesn't stop growing with GDP. So if you have -5% GDP one year instead of an expected +3%, then every future year is going to have 8% GDP lower than had been previously expected. But government didn't shrink 8% in that year, so obviously the ratio will now be higher in every one of those years going forward. (I just made up the numbers - I don't know how much GDP dropped from projections due to the recession)

    In a "healthy" society, you'd have government growing on average less than GDP in the good years so that you make that up during the bad years and end up where you started over the long run. Unfortunately, we don't have that.
     
    #55 Major, May 25, 2012
  16. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-facts-about-the-growth-of-spending-under-obama/2012/05/24/gJQAIJh6nU_blog.html?wprss=rss_fact-checker

     
    #56 tallanvor, May 25, 2012
  17. Classic

    Classic Member

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    Could you imagine rerouting that cash to states to pay for teachers? What the pentagon is sucking up at the expense of the rest of the country is amazing.

    If Obama is re-elected, I'd really like to see even more aggressive cuts than planned to the pentagon or if we have to spend that, reroute to states for education and more infrastructure projets. Romney has already stated he would grow the military further. :mad:
     
    #57 Classic, May 25, 2012
  18. Steve_Francis_rules

    Steve_Francis_rules Member

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    I'm really surprised that you're still trying to argue with his use of the world "several."


    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/several

    several: 2b. more than two but fewer than many
     
    #58 Steve_Francis_rules, May 25, 2012
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Politico??? The news outlet that Bush endorsed? Are you freaking kidding me?

    By the way, most of the moderates here don't get their news from ThinkProgress, the HuffintonPost, TPM, or whatever. You never see me quote anything from a biased media outlet.

    But your pals here have no problem regurgitating right-wing nonsense from blogs. The only side trying to misrepresent information is you and your gang.

    My only question is if you actually believe what you are posting, or if you are knowingly misrepresenting. I think it's the former. You just don't really know how it all works, and that's kinda sad to be honest.

    I am not saying the Liberal way is the right way - for sure it's not. But what you guys do...where you are on the political spectrum is so far to the right that the center becomes radical from your perspective.
     
    #59 Sweet Lou 4 2, May 25, 2012
  20. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    AP Fact Check

    I summarize for you. AP thinks it's a bunch of BS for the same reasons already posted in this thread.
     
    #60 tallanvor, May 26, 2012
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