1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Obama dithers, economy withers

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Mar 6, 2009.

  1. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    30,132
    Likes Received:
    6,758
    first, Chris Matthews realizes that the thrill is gone, and now Obama loses Krugman- Inconceivable!

    [rquoter]The Big Dither

    By PAUL KRUGMAN
    Last month, in his big speech to Congress, President Obama argued for bold steps to fix America’s dysfunctional banks. “While the cost of action will be great,” he declared, “I can assure you that the cost of inaction will be far greater, for it could result in an economy that sputters along for not months or years, but perhaps a decade.”

    Many analysts agree. But among people I talk to there’s a growing sense of frustration, even panic, over Mr. Obama’s failure to match his words with deeds. The reality is that when it comes to dealing with the banks, the Obama administration is dithering. Policy is stuck in a holding pattern.

    Here’s how the pattern works: first, administration officials, usually speaking off the record, float a plan for rescuing the banks in the press. This trial balloon is quickly shot down by informed commentators.

    Then, a few weeks later, the administration floats a new plan. This plan is, however, just a thinly disguised version of the previous plan, a fact quickly realized by all concerned. And the cycle starts again.

    Why do officials keep offering plans that nobody else finds credible? Because somehow, top officials in the Obama administration and at the Federal Reserve have convinced themselves that troubled assets, often referred to these days as “toxic waste,” are really worth much more than anyone is actually willing to pay for them — and that if these assets were properly priced, all our troubles would go away.

    Thus, in a recent interview Tim Geithner, the Treasury secretary, tried to make a distinction between the “basic inherent economic value” of troubled assets and the “artificially depressed value” that those assets command right now. In recent transactions, even AAA-rated mortgage-backed securities have sold for less than 40 cents on the dollar, but Mr. Geithner seems to think they’re worth much, much more.

    And the government’s job, he declared, is to “provide the financing to help get those markets working,” pushing the price of toxic waste up to where it ought to be.

    What’s more, officials seem to believe that getting toxic waste properly priced would cure the ills of all our major financial institutions. Earlier this week, Ben Bernanke, the Federal Reserve chairman, was asked about the problem of “zombies” — financial institutions that are effectively bankrupt but are being kept alive by government aid. “I don’t know of any large zombie institutions in the U.S. financial system,” he declared, and went on to specifically deny that A.I.G. — A.I.G.! — is a zombie.

    This is the same A.I.G. that, unable to honor its promises to pay off other financial institutions when bonds default, has already received $150 billion in aid and just got a commitment for $30 billion more.

    The truth is that the Bernanke-Geithner plan — the plan the administration keeps floating, in slightly different versions — isn’t going to fly.

    Take the plan’s latest incarnation: a proposal to make low-interest loans to private investors willing to buy up troubled assets. This would certainly drive up the price of toxic waste because it would offer a heads-you-win, tails-we-lose proposition. As described, the plan would let investors profit if asset prices went up but just walk away if prices fell substantially.

    But would it be enough to make the banking system healthy? No.

    Think of it this way: by using taxpayer funds to subsidize the prices of toxic waste, the administration would shower benefits on everyone who made the mistake of buying the stuff. Some of those benefits would trickle down to where they’re needed, shoring up the balance sheets of key financial institutions. But most of the benefit would go to people who don’t need or deserve to be rescued.

    And this means that the government would have to lay out trillions of dollars to bring the financial system back to health, which would, in turn, both ensure a fierce public outcry and add to already serious concerns about the deficit. (Yes, even strong advocates of fiscal stimulus like yours truly worry about red ink.) Realistically, it’s just not going to happen.

    So why has this zombie idea — it keeps being killed, but it keeps coming back — taken such a powerful grip? The answer, I fear, is that officials still aren’t willing to face the facts. They don’t want to face up to the dire state of major financial institutions because it’s very hard to rescue an essentially insolvent bank without, at least temporarily, taking it over. And temporary nationalization is still, apparently, considered unthinkable.

    But this refusal to face the facts means, in practice, an absence of action. And I share the president’s fears: inaction could result in an economy that sputters along, not for months or years, but for a decade or more.[/rquoter]

    and the Ditherer in Chief is making the same mistake in the housing market.
     
  2. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    26,784
    Likes Received:
    3,499
    I wish he would stop giving speeches. Everyone was bracing for the market drop after that state of the union but not state of the union speech.
     
  3. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    11,262
    Likes Received:
    450
    Obama's stuck between a rock and a hard place. We all know who would decry definitive action as socialism.
     
  4. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    30,132
    Likes Received:
    6,758
    wasn't he elected to show leadership, take the hard decisions?
     
  5. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    18,345
    Likes Received:
    13,729
    At least you don't deny that you will criticize him no matter what. I guess that's something.
     
  6. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    11,262
    Likes Received:
    450
    Yes. Which he has on several issues already; diplomacy with former outcasts like Syria and Iran, a complete refocus towards Afghanistan etc. etc.

    Rome wasn't built in a day. In order to get some kind of plan together that would work and be at least somewhat appealing to the opposition will take time. The stimulus bill taught us all a lesson; while it's true there was some items attached that were wasteful, the overall level of opposition and the statements made by GOP members afterwards shows us that bi-partisanship is, as of now, somewhat of a fantasy. Obama can't overplay his hand and make hard decisions all the time, there has to be some concessions made. Which is unfortunate in this case.
     
  7. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    30,132
    Likes Received:
    6,758
    i've been making this point for weeks re the housing market- sammy and others seem to think propping up artificially inflated home prices is a good thing for the economy. wonder if they feel the same way about banks.
     
  8. weslinder

    weslinder Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    291
    Call me crazy, but when the FDIC asks Congress for a $500 Billion emergency line of credit, I'm thinking that something "bold" is on the horizon.

    I'm betting on a Citi liquidation, but who knows?
     
  9. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    34,907
    Likes Received:
    34,202
    Or this is just removing some of the uncertainty that the market so loathes.
     
  10. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,059
    Likes Received:
    3,935
    First, If you've been paying attention even a little bit, you'd know Obama didn't "lose" Krugman, who has been criticizing his financial policy as too timid from the get go.

    Second, Isn't it exhausting being such an intellectually dishonest d-bag?
     
  11. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    34,907
    Likes Received:
    34,202
    cleaned that up for ya...
     
  12. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,445
    Likes Received:
    15,886
    :confused: Krugman's been railing on Obama for over a year now. He was a staunch Hillary supporter and constantly attacked Obama's health care and economic policies. Obama's not leftist enough for him. Krugman railed that the stimulus was too small as well.
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    59,081
    Likes Received:
    36,711
    This thread is pretty emblematic of the Republican counterpoint to Obama - they will cite anybody and anything, as long as the answer is Obama bad. There is no coherent theme other than that. The reason is that their brand (I would say their ideas, but their ideas were always pretty much just a brand to tie together social cons & economic cons under a big tent) has been played out - abolition of government, and waiting for magic results just doesn't work and is not an end of itself.

    Remember, these are the same guys who, apparently short several semesters of high school social studies, equate the expiration of a highest end marginal tax cut to Marxist Revolution. So it shows how deep rooted the kneejerkism is for them to cite a guy like Krugman, who criticizes Obama for being not liberal enough, and who, on their warped scale of socialism, represents a Pol Pot return-to-year-zero style philosophy.

    The funny parti s that relatively moderate cons like David Brooks, who clowns like basso frequently quotes, ran an opposite column in the NYT today, which said "Hold on you idiots, he's not a socialist, these guys are really smart, and this plan might work" - I guess he missed that column, because it did not get any play in wingnuttia or because El Rushbo told him not to read it.
     
  14. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    47,566
    Likes Received:
    17,282
    I don't get how you guys are still patient enough to bother responding to this crap anymore.
     
  15. bingsha10

    bingsha10 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    3,118
    Likes Received:
    308
    Of course its going to work in the short term.

    If it doesn't we are RRREEAALLLLYY screwed.

    Its the next depression in 6 to 8 years that is going to do us in because we'll have fired all our bullets this time round.
     
  16. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,925
    Likes Received:
    2,267
    Even when it's written by their economic savior who they were oh so quick to quote just 4-5 months ago?
     
  17. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    30,132
    Likes Received:
    6,758
    gracias.
     
  18. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    30,132
    Likes Received:
    6,758
    how many noble prizes has david brooks won?
     
  19. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    47,566
    Likes Received:
    17,282

    I don't mind the article, it's the constant overreaction and misrepresentation from the messenger.
     
  20. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    312
    The funny thing about this is that it immediately reminded me of Tony Blair talking about the war on terror....

    "Whatever the dangers of the action we take, the dangers of inaction are far, far greater."
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now