Obama bugged Trump Tower before election

Looks like you still haven't read the long-released CIA report. Here it is again, perhaps this time you'll actually read it.

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

It is 14 pages, so not too long of a read for you. It does go over evidence and analyzing all their findings.

Of course you go on pretending it doesn't exist so that you can ignore facts that don't suit what you'd like to be true.

 

Of course, and it was awful. Also remember that there was a complete renovation of procedures and requirements that changed how these things were done.

 

Merkel too

 

It's a waste in the sense of a long drawn out impeachment that was dead on arrival. Waste is too strong of a word, as it was more disappointing in what could've been. Then again, I'm not a fan of the neoliberal policies that he successfully pushed for.

I'm not going to go through the Obama debate again as there are things not everyone is fully satisfied with. I consider his handling of an housing related economic bubble burst decent in comparison to how other countries handled theirs over time. This wasn't a cyclical or stock derived recession that typically lasts shorter and that should be factored in.

That's a convenient scapegoat to pin the Trumps, Palins, Bachmans, and Cruzs on Obama. It's a bit myopic considering they're not Obama's party or that an opposition party is so devoid of their own ideas or thoughts that their best course is to nominate a candidate with the exact opposite character and qualities.

 

Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper on Sunday denied any suggestion that Trump Tower communications were wiretapped before the election.

For the part of the national security apparatus that he oversaw, "there was no such wiretap activity mounted against the president, the president-elect at the time, or as a candidate, or against his campaign,"

​

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...lapper-i-can-deny-wiretap-trump-tower-n729261



FBI Director Comey Asked Justice Department to
publicly rebut Trump's phone-tapping allegations — which he posted on Twitter without evidence — because the claims are untrue and suggest that the FBI broke the law. Comey's appeal pits him against the president.

But, Comey is having difficulty knocking the story down because there are only a few politically appointed Justice Department officials who could approve a statement,

as Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from anything pertaining to the government's investigation into alleged connections between Russia and the Trump campaign​

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ked-doj-reject-trump-s-wiretap-claims-n729351

 

It's not like I'm pinning a terrible president on a good president, I'm showing how terrible president A led to terrible president B. Obama helped pull the pendulum in one direction by being awful and once that was released the natural response was for things to swing out of control. I'm sure people could say that Bush was the reason for Obama, and I wouldn't really disagree the same as Clinton was the reason Bush won. Something bad is often the response to something else bad.

If anything, we can blame the people for voting for increasingly bad presidents in the last.....well, at least 6 elections.

Hopefully things settle down and we end up returning to sanity as a country and the days of garbage presidents like Trump and Obama will be left in the past.

 

It's not like we've had great options to choose from...

 

For your argument, election margins do matter. Trump didn't win the largest electoral college vote since Reagan, nor did he win the popular vote. If Obama was as terrible as you'd say, those margins would support the hypothesis.

Gore also won the popular vote, yet couldn't win Florida, so I don't think Clinton had a decisive role in Bush.

With Trump, there has been more private scrutiny over politics, court rulings and executive orders. Businesses are getting pissed over chaotic last minute decrees. Whether that translates to increasing abysmal turnouts is anyone's guess.

 

Honestly though, Politico isn't exactly the most unbiased source. Some of their classifications of fact tend to be a bit ridiculous tbh.

Regardless, Trump is clearly untrustworthy. The man eats his steak well-done. Just takes good meat and burns it. Then proceeds to eat it with ketchup like a 5-year-old. I just don't understand him and question whether or not he is human.

 

I laugh at anyone who thinks Trump is telling the truth here. Clearly the man is grasping at straws and anyone who still supports him is looney.

As for Saying Trump is a terrible president like Obama - that's like saying raw sewage is terrible to drink just like tap water.

 

That's true, there haven't been a lot of winners running for president lately....and that's something else that needs to change.

The margins have nothing at all to do with how good or bad a president is. If you want to fool yourself into thinking that Obama was a good president....well go for it I guess. Doesn't make it true.

 

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. And that's how history will see it. None of our opinions on this board will mean squat in terms of how history views these Presidents. George W. Bush is going to be viewed as the President who led us in the post-911 period, and he's also going to be the President who led us into Iraq and the housing crisis. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter that Congress, including Hillary Clinton, supported this- it's going to be put at GW's feet. Obama is going to be seen as the President who led us out of the Great Recession and under whose watch Bin Laden was killed. Obamacare is going to be his legacy as well - but we don't know how that's going to turn out- if it's completely overturned and we never go back to government-controlled healthcare, it will be seen as a failure. If Obamacare basically is modified but not replaced, or if it comes back under the next Democrat president, it will be seen as a success.

Obama is not going to be seen as the worst President except for partisan hacks. Same with Reagan- those people on the left who call Reagan one of the worst presidents are spouting an opinion that is not going to be shared by history.

Bobby can "Andre Johnson" the Obama legacy to death, but it doesn't mean it's so. That's what he does well. Matter of fact, that's what a lot of posters do well. They have their "thing." ATW is the Islam guy. RocketsLegend is the Trump guy. Bobby is the I'm-going-to-repeat-the-same-mantra-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over again until you actually start to believe that what he's saying is an empirical fact.

That's not necessarily a bad thing- it's actually an effective rhetorical device. But it's still the same one opinion.

I'd guess that Obama will be viewed favorably by history as will Reagan. Not sure about Clinton or GW Bush. Depends. Carter will probably not be remembered fondly. Maybe that's his fault, maybe not so much.

Or Nixon- you know, Nixon is always going to be tarnished by Watergate. It will be very difficult for anyone to view his legacy objectively because of that.

Who knows. But Obama's not going to be viewed as an awful President. That's just partisanship speaking.

 

Well, of course not, he'll never be viewed impartially due to him being the first black president. He was set from day one due to that alone, no matter how bad he was, he was always going to be remembered fondly. I mean, they gave him a Nobel prize just for being elected. Of course people are going to rewrite history to suggest that he did a good job....hell they are starting to do so already.

Now, that doesn't mean that those who can see past that kind of nonsense can't realize that he was an absolute embarrassment who did nothing but screw things up overseas and divide the country at home.

 

You're also giving the American public too much credit. The reason Clinton won was (a) Ross Perot, (b) the sharp downturn in the economy in 1992, and (c) that George HW Bush was simply not as charismatic as Clinton.

The reason why Bush won was because (a) the Supreme Court, (b) Clinton burnout (not the same as dislike, BTW), and (c) Gore was simply not as charismatic as GW

The reason why Obama won was because (a) Bush burnout (and the troubled economy), (b) novelty, and (c) McCain was simply not as charismatic as Obama

The reason why Trump won was because (a) strange voting anomalies such as the wins in Michigan, (b) Obama burnout (not the same as dislike), and (c) Clinton was simply not as charismatic as Trump, and (d) the "outsider" factor trumped the "really nasty person" factor.

 

Absolutely. White Americans taking their country back. Regardless of the growing minority populations, this remains a white-majority country and many Caucasian Americans are tired of being PC, afraid of change, and yet want a change. They view Black Lives Matter with fear, they view the growing presence of Hispanics with concern, and they're making the same while the cost of living continues to rise.

It's not like we dont' know this- look at every single interview with these individuals that go out to try to find out why Trump supporters voted the way they did. They talk about preserving their culture, they talk about being sick of PC, etc.

I completely understand how they think. I have family in some of these areas and this is exactly what they say, verbatim. I don't agree, but I understand. They want their America to go back to how it was. They don't want gay people to be accepted. They believe this is a Christian nation. They fear Muslims greatly (BTW, nearly all of those who fear Muslims know very few, if any, Muslims. Those that know several don't have this fear). They are sick of millionaire athletes disrespecting the national anthem, they don't understand why women are constantly b****ing about being harassed ("What, I can't even compliment a woman anymore?"), they love patriotism, they don't like to be constantly told that they need to recycle, that they can't use plastic bags, and that their SUVs are ****ing up the environment. They don't want an alternative version of history- they know slavery happened, but as far as they're concerned, it's long since been over with and that black people need to get over themselves. They are sick and tired of having to see instructions in both Spanish and English- at the ATM, in instructions for their appliances, etc. "This is America, damnit, we speak English here, and if you come here, YOU NEED TO ADAPT TO OUR CULTURE- WE DON'T NEED TO ACCEPT YOUR CULTURE!" There is nothing wrong with calling the Redskins the Redskins.

It's not so much that they want to Make America Great Again. It's just that they want to Make America America Again. As they see it.

 

Sure, that'll always be a factor. If he was truly awful, that would come out as well. But he wasn't, so that's not going to matter. It has nothing to do with how I personally view him. I say the same about Reagan. Both Presidents inherited a bad economy, and both left with a better economy. No major wars started under either, and no major scandals happened. Those things matter- look at Nixon for a perfect example of that.

 

He was truly awful, and people still try to defend him. I think that Trump being worse will go a long way towards helping people buy into the BS narrative that Obama was a competent president despite all of the evidence pointing to the contrary. Sure Obama totally bungled the situation overseas and led to the rise of ISIS (note, I didn't say he started it, but Obama becoming president was one of the best things to ever happen to that organization) along with running his mouth recklessly leading to the country being more divided than it has been in decades. On top of that, while we had some job growth when it comes to part time or low paying areas, wages stagnated due to not adding many high paying jobs....so you can't evne tout economic growth.

Basically the Obama years led to nothing good at all and for the most part the only way he's defended is by saying "without him it would have been much worse" which you could say about literally any president given that there's no way of proving a ridiculous statement like that one way or the other. It's sort of a "well I know I don't have anything to stand on, so I'm just going to make a statement that can't be proven or disproven instead"

 

I think once we get to the point where we can be honest about Obama's shortcomings as a president then we can move towards real progress.