Time to invest in a shitload of popcorn- 2017 is going to be a movie, the circus, and a John LeCarre novel all rolled up into one.
So after watching Levin's video, it looks like that if his "sources" are correct that there was evidence to warrant surveillance. I don't see how this is an actual overreach or that it is something Obama actually did himself. This is one area in which I agree with Trump. I hope that there is an investigation and we get all of the answers. The sad thing is that Trump appears to not have asked the Intel community for proof, or about any of this, but instead listened to some crap from Breitbart without a critical eye in the slightest and bought it hook line and sinker. Pretty sad.
Well there is little proof that this actually happened, but if it did, and there was evidence from the court, then it's ashamed that they had evidence and it warranted such measures.
I think we all agree that if Obama called for the illegal wiretapping of Trump that those involved deserve criminal charges filed against them. My question to you is; what if it turns out that Trump simply believed the Breitbart report and parroted it without any credible evidence? What should the consequences be for Trump?
When evaluating anything our current president has to say, it behooves us to consider his history of credibility... http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
Nothing better will emerge. All he did was lower the bar for being President. We now know that someone with zero experience, that race baits, habitually lies and is wreck less can be elected President. Now we will have people like David Hasselhoff or Roger Metzger running and thinking they have a chance.
The same consequences as when Obama lied to the American people about Obamacare. Presidents lie, that's not anything new, neither is Trump lying. Hell I assume that pretty much anything he says is either a half truth or an outright lie. If Trump keeps this kind of nonsense up he'll end up being as good at getting Republicans voted out of office as Obama was about getting Democrats voted out of office. That's the consequences for getting caught lying to the American people time and time again.
That's true. I guess as much as I would like to see an investigation, there has to be some sort of real evidence first.
This statement as I've amended it could have been said a year or two ago and it would have been every bit at accurate as your original post. We've done nothing but lower the bar again again again when it comes to being president.
Nope. Oversimplification. Every President slants the truth. If you are comparing Trump to them, you are basically saying that all players have bad nights and that Jordan, Olajuwon, Robertson, Erving, Barkley, James, Westbrook, Harden, and O'Neal are on the same level as Ryan Bowen because, hey, they've all bad games. There is lying and there is lying. There is Clinton, Bush, Obama, Reagan, Carter, and Ford-style lying. Then there is Trump. A whole other category.
Obama lying had very little to do with getting Democrats voted out of office. C'mon, Bobby, you're way smarter than that. Democrats were voted out for any number of reasons: holding on to traditional values, the normal pendulum swing, the anti-PC reason, and yes, the opposition against the government forcing you to pay for healthcare. Let's not be disingenuous and blame the Democrat losses on whether Obama told the truth or not. That shows a lack of understanding about what truly motivated people to vote Republican.
Again, untrue. It's not lowering the bar to vote in GW Bush, or Obama, or Clinton, or Reagan. Regardless of their faults, none of them had 1/100 of the issues that Trump does. Now people are seeing why, as much as you may want to "drain the swamp," you really need to elect people who have some inkling of an idea about how to govern.
I understand that's how you see it, but there was a constant lowering of the bar. I mean, we look back on them fondly, but Clinton at one point was a an absolute disgrace.....but looking back he looks pretty good compared to the garbage we had after that. Bush and Cheney were considered Nazi's by the left.....but now they are looked back on fairly fondly because of what came afterwards. Obama came in with zero executive experience then constantly lied, race baited, and generally ran his mouth recklessly....but compared to Trump, he's already starting to look better by comparison. Honestly I don't think Clinton is where the downward trend started either, I think if I put any real thought into it I could show that it goes back considerably further. The point is, I get that some people think that everything was great until Trump, but that's short sighted and using rose colored glasses to view the past with IMO. Honestly I hope that we've hit rock bottom.....but I was hoping that was the case with Obama and it clearly wasn't. Things could get worse still, though I can't imagine how.
If he believed it, and the report turns out to be false, then Trump just looks foolish. It reminds me of the time that the Obama administration tried to blame the Benghazi attack on a demonstration and a YouTube video or something. Just reporting what they heard. Just reporting what they hoped was true. If it turns out the report is false, then Trump just keeps looking more and more foolish everyday.
I don't look back on Bush or Cheney fondly. His ****ups haunt us to this day. Bush himself seems like a decent person, except when you realize he abdicated an important portion of his duly elected authority and responsibility to Dick, thereby making Cheney one of the most powerful veeps ever, that makes him an incredibly irresponsible man and POTUS. Clinton seemed like a wasted presidency to me. Obama kept the lights on when things were getting really depressing, so he gets a pass on many of his disappointments he promised his constituents. Plus his party lost the incumbent election, so I don't think Americans were deluded by his afterglow. Trump inherits a rebounding economy and his challenge is to break out of low digit GDP growth affecting the US and other modern economies. It would be nice to reduce the debt and annual deficits but let's tackle one giant before calling out the others. As for rock bottoms, 2008 is for millennials and younger, the US rock button, while 70s stagflation or the cultural chaos of the 60s are for others. This one is largely self inflicted and we can only hope and pray it takes only one presidency to recover from Trump. Trump's election is, for me, a declaration by the older generations to retake something that has long left the building. A desire for simplicity and an entitled life through blue collar work that is being outclassed and overtaken by the world and automation. I think conservatives know their push to go back to old school culture wars is futile, but it's always worked to help push their pro rich packages through the door. It's oddly puzzling to know you're cooking yourself with destructive policies. With the financial banks, they knowingly plunged in because they knew taxpayers would bail them out. The government can't bail itself out though. Maybe that's why Congress does jack **** with offshore bank accounts.
Well this is an interesting alternative version of history too I suppose. Funny enough, some things were actually accomplished under Clinton and nothing positive was accomplished under Obama but you see Clinton as a wasted presidency and not the other way around? Very interesting. Anyway, the point is that every president at least since Clinton has lowered the bar when it comes to being president in one way or the other. They were all disappointments if you can see beyond partisan politics (and don't view Obama as a deity as some do). I see Trump being elected as a response to 8 years of a really bad president that set the stage for a jackass like Trump to be voted in. If Obama was less of an embarrassment, we wouldn't have the current embarrassment in office.
