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Obama and Ayers: 21 years of "just guys in the neighborhood."

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. basso

    basso Member
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    the weathermen did, ayers tried to.
     
  2. mtbrays

    mtbrays Member
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    All of this, especially the thread title, is so ridiculous. My mother has lived in the same home for 30 years. Until last year, she lived next door to the same man. That was, until he past away from cancer last year. Now, this man was a local Houston legend of sorts. He founded a well-known blues bar in the East End during the 1980s and 90s and seemed to be one of our last preservers of blues in this great city. However, he once jumped our fence and kicked my mother's dog in the head multiple times, almost killing her. This was certainly a detestable act. Naturally, my mother held it against him for many years, but that lingering hate slowly faded away. She was cordial with him when they were out in their yards and I can remember him giving my first pocket knife, which is something my father would not do. Although he allowed his house to be a model of unkemptness for 30+ years and left dangerous, dead trees hanging over our home - one of which managed to come slightly uprooted and lean against our house during Ike - I could tell that my mother was upset when he died. For all that was bad about him, there were some redeeming qualities.

    The point of my story is that people are complex creatures with many dimensions. Yes, what Ayers did in the past was deplorable and has been rightfully condemned by all parties. However, he has been a professor at one of the most well-respected universities in the country for decades and has been appointed by the mayor of Chicago to serve on boards. Just like my neighbor, certain things in Ayers' past deserve to be decried, but it's naive and petty to assume that all people are one dimensional, hollow shells.

    And that, I think, is one of the problems with our politics. When people like the Twins decide to defame character, they head for the most obvious flaws. They define John McCain as "Patriot" only and refuse to acknowledge that at one point he could have been called "adulterer" and "corrupt." They see Barack Obama only as "Unqualified" instead of "Intelligent," "Committed Father," or "Future President." ( ;) )
     
  3. basso

    basso Member
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    it's not quite as bad as kicking your dog in the head, but still pretty bad.

    Never again, Mr. Obama?

    [rquoter]Fire in the Night
    The Weathermen tried to kill my family.
    30 April 2008
    During the April 16 debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, moderator George Stephanopoulos brought up “a gentleman named William Ayers,” who “was part of the Weather Underground in the 1970s. They bombed the Pentagon, the Capitol, and other buildings. He’s never apologized for that.” Stephanopoulos then asked Obama to explain his relationship with Ayers. Obama’s answer: “The notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was eight years old, somehow reflects on me and my values, doesn’t make much sense, George.” Obama was indeed only eight in early 1970. I was only nine then, the year Ayers’s Weathermen tried to murder me.

    In February 1970, my father, a New York State Supreme Court justice, was presiding over the trial of the so-called “Panther 21,” members of the Black Panther Party indicted in a plot to bomb New York landmarks and department stores. Early on the morning of February 21, as my family slept, three gasoline-filled firebombs exploded at our home on the northern tip of Manhattan, two at the front door and the third tucked neatly under the gas tank of the family car. (Today, of course, we’d call that a car bomb.) A neighbor heard the first two blasts and, with the remains of a snowman I had built a few days earlier, managed to douse the flames beneath the car. That was an act whose courage I fully appreciated only as an adult, an act that doubtless saved multiple lives that night.

    I still recall, as though it were a dream, thinking that someone was lifting and dropping my bed as the explosions jolted me awake, and I remember my mother’s pulling me from the tangle of sheets and running to the kitchen where my father stood. Through the large windows overlooking the yard, all we could see was the bright glow of flames below. We didn’t leave our burning house for fear of who might be waiting outside. The same night, bombs were thrown at a police car in Manhattan and two military recruiting stations in Brooklyn. Sunlight, the next morning, revealed three sentences of blood-red graffiti on our sidewalk: FREE THE PANTHER 21; THE VIET CONG HAVE WON; KILL THE PIGS.

    For the next 18 months, I went to school in an unmarked police car. My mother, a schoolteacher, had plainclothes detectives waiting in the faculty lounge all day. My brother saved a few bucks because he didn’t have to rent a limo for the senior prom: the NYPD did the driving. We all made the best of the odd new life that had been thrust upon us, but for years, the sound of a fire truck’s siren made my stomach knot and my heart race. In many ways, the enormity of the attempt to kill my entire family didn’t fully hit me until years later, when, a father myself, I was tucking my own nine-year-old John Murtagh into bed.

    Though no one was ever caught or tried for the attempt on my family’s life, there was never any doubt who was behind it. Only a few weeks after the attack, the New York contingent of the Weathermen blew themselves up making more bombs in a Greenwich Village townhouse. The same cell had bombed my house, writes Ron Jacobs in The Way the Wind Blew: A History of the Weather Underground. And in late November that year, a letter to the Associated Press signed by Bernardine Dohrn, Ayers’s wife, promised more bombings.

    As the association between Obama and Ayers came to light, it would have helped the senator a little if his friend had at least shown some remorse. But listen to Ayers interviewed in the New York Times on September 11, 2001, of all days: “I don’t regret setting bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough.” Translation: “We meant to kill that judge and his family, not just damage the porch.” When asked by the Times if he would do it all again, Ayers responded: “I don’t want to discount the possibility.”

    Though never a supporter of Obama, I admired him for a time for his ability to engage our imaginations, and especially for his ability to inspire the young once again to embrace the political system. Yet his myopia in the last few months has cast a new light on his “politics of change.” Nobody should hold the junior senator from Illinois responsible for his friends’ and supporters’ violent terrorist acts. But it is fair to hold him responsible for a startling lack of judgment in his choice of mentors, associates, and friends, and for showing a callous disregard for the lives they damaged and the hatred they have demonstrated for this country. It is fair, too, to ask what those choices say about Obama’s own beliefs, his philosophy, and the direction he would take our nation.

    At the conclusion of his 2001 Times interview, Ayers said of his upbringing and subsequent radicalization: “I was a child of privilege and I woke up to a world on fire.”

    Funny thing, Bill: one night, so did I.

    John M. Murtagh is a practicing attorney, an adjunct professor of public policy at the Fordham University College of Liberal Studies, and a member of the city council in Yonkers, New York, where he resides with his wife and two sons.[/rquoter]
     
  4. Mulder

    Mulder Member

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    I encourage everyone on the board to post this video as a response to all the trash being posted that attempts to distract voters from real issues.

    <embed src="http://services.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f8/1185304443" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" flashVars="videoId=1840831890&playerId=1185304443&viewerSecureGatewayURL=https://console.brightcove.com/services/amfgateway&servicesURL=http://services.brightcove.com/services&cdnURL=http://admin.brightcove.com&domain=embed&autoStart=false&" base="http://admin.brightcove.com" name="flashObj" width="486" height="412" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" swLiveConnect="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed>
     
  5. basso

    basso Member
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    Distractions :

    "Bringing up Bill Ayers and the character issue is a distraction from the fact that the American people want to hear what we're going to do about the economy."

    "Asserting that I'm going to raise taxes is a distraction from the fact that the American people want to know who's going to end the war responsibly in Iraq."

    "Saying that I want to surrender in Iraq is a distraction from the fact that the American people want to know that their president is a man who can show judgement and character."
     
  6. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    No, but there is an actual connection here instead of trying to stretch to make one. TIA?
     
  7. Franchise2001

    Franchise2001 Contributing Member

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    From watching the "dials" from undecided Ohio voters on CNN, any time McCain went negative, the dials went wayyyyyy negative. I think people are fed up with McCain's attacks.
     
  8. basso

    basso Member
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    this story isn't going away:

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ONfJ7YSXE5w&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ONfJ7YSXE5w&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
     
  9. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    Neither is the economic crisis, so the voters' indifference to this non-story isn't going away either.
     
  10. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    I can't believe you didn't start a new thread for this.
     
  11. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Make me throw my hands in the AYER A AYER AYER A AYER.

    I just might start the wave like I'm at the ball game, do my thang
    Hands up, I got, money in the bank I'm so fly, 747 plane
     
  12. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Ayers wil not save Mccain

    Economy in meltdown, endless war, people losing their homes, cost of living spiraling out of control. 80% of the country thinks American is on the wrong track.
     
  13. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    "This story isn't going away" implies that reputable mainstream news media would be covering it and that the voting public would be interested.

    You posted a paid political ad?

    DOH
     
  14. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    What’s funny is the sad hope the wingnuts cling too that this will magically morph into some type of gotcha moment that will bring Barack down. What these crazies don’t get is that America has greater concerns than a debunked association that has no relevance to the campaign or how Obama will act as president.

    Desperation knows no bounds.
     
  15. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    I know: we have to give basso props. He also kept a lot of ACORN stuff in one thread, instead of starting a new thread for each new article.

    Progress. Yes he can!
     
  16. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Say it to my face coward!!!

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IDz7iJYJXmE&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IDz7iJYJXmE&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
     
  17. basso

    basso Member
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    J-Mac goes there .

    [rquoter]

    Waukesha, Wisconsin -- In response to a broad question about how Barack Obama "got here" -- presumably got his lead -- John McCain didn't name Bill Ayers but spoke of him directly. McCain said "We don't care about an old washed up terrorist and his wife" who said earlier this decade that he wished they were more successful. (Several in the crowd chanted: "Yes we do!")
    McCain noted that Obama had referred to Ayers as "just a guy in his neighborhood," and said "we know that's not true. We need to know the full extent of that relationship to know whether he's telling the truth to the American public."

    Sarah Palin, following up, took a shot at the media. "Mainstream media isn't already asking all these questions, you guys have to help us....When will the questions be asked and when will we get answers?!"

    UPDATE: The next question came from a black McCain supporter, who reminded McCain of the candidate's plea at the convention for his supporters to do everything possible to ensure a victory. The supporter said: "I doubt that anyone has taken, pardon me, the ass-whoopin' I have taken for doing that." He then implored McCain to go after Barack Obama at the next debate and asked him to raise ACORN and Reverend Wright. "I am begging you, sir," he said, as the crowd stood and applauded.

    "Yes, I'll do that," McCain responded, before promising to offer "a positive plan for America's economy."[/rquoter]

    i think next week's debate is going to be a lot more spirited.
     
    #97 basso, Oct 9, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2008
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    LOL

    mccain: "i have black friends"

    as if we didn't talk about wright enough.


    ITS THE ECONOMY DUMBASS

    i mean stupid
     
  19. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    John McCain is a coward and Joe Biden calls him on it today!

     
  20. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    Personally, I think the Obama campaign knows this will come to a head in the third debate and they are preparing for it. I don't know how it will shake out, but I get the feeling any such maneuver by McCain will be looked down upon from the get-go, giving Obama free reign to hammer home quite possibly the easiest rebuttal of all time.
     

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