If Pace was in the draft this year, I'm guessing he'd go top 5. You don't pass up a player of his caliber at a position we need on the chance that a 13th pick may become a solid player for 5-10 years. This deal is a no-brainer.
According to the NFL Network via the Texans message board, the Texans and Orlando Pace have reached an agreement. It's just a matter of compensation for the Rams. Didn't hear the report myself but if true, sounds like it'll get done. On the flip side, the NFL Network also said the Texans signed Ron Dayne last week so who knows?
Awww, I don't wanna see Sharper go, but I'm all for whatever it takes to get Carr good protection. Pace would be HUGE! If he's a Texan next year, I say Carr's numbers will rise significantly.
Well, then you really wont like the deal the Texans are willing to pull. It will be more than just a 1st rounder. Pace is too good to pass up. This isnt just some above average LT. During our short existence as a franchise, we have had nothing more than just an extremely mediocre LT. This is our chance to have that part of the OLine anchored for the next 5, 6 years. This guy is among the very best in the business and there is no telling how beneficial this will be to Carr, Davis, and the receivers. Our passing and running game will both improve dramatically if Pace is in the lineup. The 1st round pick will not come close to making the impact that Pace can make.
Exactly, he will make everyone on the offense better, Carr will get more time, Davis will get bigger holes, Johnson will get more touches, etc. . . . This is really a no brainer, Pace is not to be played with, he's superstar -- a Hall of Fame caliber player.
I would like to think that its a 1st rounder, 3rd rounder, and Sharper. If that doesnt happen, then I would say something like 1st rounder and next year's 2nd rounder....with Sharper getting released. Honestly though, I have no clue. Im not sure what it is that the Rams want, but I know the Texans need to make it happen.
No doubt Pace is a great ball player. He might be the best tackle in the league but a young team like the Texans shouldn't give up an early 1st rounder right now. If you are one player away from a Super Bowl then im all for it but a young team should establish their skill positions by drafting a guy like Rolle, or Williamson and build some solid depth with the rest of the draft. Aaron Glenn's skills have slipped and Andre needs a legit #2 wideout to play next to him. A CB and a 2nd wideout would help this team a great way. Seth Wand is a young guy so he could improve alot next season. He will never be an Orlando Pace but in the end you get a younger player(draft pick) and its cheaper.
Orlando Pace is a sure thing. You know what kind of player you'll be getting. Drafting a rookie with the 13th pick is risky. I'd rather invest a large sum of money into a top 5 Left Tackle who can still be a good player 5 years from now rather than an unproven rookie who could very well end up being a bust.
LIL FRANCIS: Its one thing if the Texans already had a decent offensive line, and they were just going for the icing on the cake with Pace... but the Texans have NO LINE! The FOUNDATION of every team's offense is their offensive line. You're right... you don't have to have a dominant LT... but you can't have an overall crappy line. Right now, the Texans have an overall CRAPPY line. Its limitation of the offense is horrendous, especially when we have three studs just ready to bust out on any given play. Why do you think we had 5,000 dump-offs to Dom Davis every game this year? Why do you think we always do that quick side-out to Andre Johnson in-order for him to shine (rather than just throw it deep to him, because he totally beats his receiver almost every time). Why does Carr spend half the game on his back-side??? Its all because we don't give Carr any time AT ALL. Chris Palmer is quite an innovative offensive genius (as he showed in Jacksonville), but he hasn't been able to do a damn thing with this offense because of the line... frankly, I'm amazed they've been able to do as much as they could. Now, nobody likes giving up 1st round picks for anybody... BUT... if you have to, you do it in situations like this. Left tackles are the a.) hardest commodity to obtain in the league.... b.) its the most expensive position in the league for a reason... and c.) guys who are perennial pro-bowlers stay that way... even when they get older. Also, I finish this with the fact that the Texans are NOT just some young expansion team anymore. Any time you work on building a team for 4 years, especially with all the draft picks they've had the first 3, you start to expect some progress right now. If we keep building for the future... when will this current nucleus get their chance... another 4 years?... 5 years? This is the NFL, where anything can happen to your QB, WR, RB, or CB any year... and it could ruin your season.
This trade should go down similar to the Vikings - Raiders deal for Randy Moss. Trade a 1st rounder and Sharper, and a 3rd if they insist. Let's hold on to the 2nd rounder, as this team is still paper thin at many positions like Guard, DL, and ILB.
You make great points, but I really think protecting Carr is a much greater priority than #2 reciever or a CB. I don't think the Texans can continue to allow Carr to get beaten to a pulp every year . . . it will catch up with him. Pace is the type of impact player that will raise the level of play of Carr, Johnson and the rest of the offense. For example, maybe we could use Miller more as a receiving TE, rather than using the blocking TE as the "extra lineman." Plus a #13 pick is not really an"early pick" that's worth outweighing the need to protect Carr.
Nick, I don't think the Texans O-Line is as bad as you think they are. They don't have a top 5 O-Line but I think the O-Line is decent. I think Carr would get sacked 40+ times with KC's line and IMO they have the best line in football. Too many times Carr holds the ball forever and the O-Line gets the blame. This season Carr needs to step his game up like a #1 pick. Defensive Ends now days are so fast that you can't afford to camp back there and just wait for Andre to get open. He needs to step up.
I'm not the biggest fan of the Texans, but I do like pro football in general and it didn't really seem like this to me. Carr actually seems to have decent feet and avoids more sacks than he "accidentally" gives up by not getting rid of the ball at the right time. Not to say Carr doesn't need to play better. He really does.
I'm all for getting a stud LT like Orlando Pace. I think it will do wonders for Carr and the entire offense. We've been trying to get by with a patchwork line since our existence, drafting mid-round projects (i.e. Pitts, Wand, Weary) and signing mid-level FAs (Wiegert & Wade). Dominant O-linemen like Pace don't come around very often. #13 this year is not gonna offer any help in that regard, and I don't see us drafting in the early 1st round for the foreseeable future, so this is the way to upgrade. My main question beyond what we would have to give the Rams in the trade (which looks like #13 + player + early round pick): What kind of contract are we gonna give Pace? Will it restrict us salary-cap wise?
The current o-line is not the worst in the league... but for them to be effective, they all have to play at their full potential... and even then we have to resort to dump-offs and side-outs in order to keep the defense from getting to Carr. More often than not this season, however, the line would have plenty of breakdowns.... its just unreasonable to expect much out of this rag-tag bunch. None of them are pro-bowlers... and it would be hard for any of them to be a bonafied starter on any other team. Does Carr deserve some blame for sacks? Of course... you can't expect those guys to hold on forever. But, there were games where neither David or Dominic could do a thing because the D-line was already in the backfield as soon as the ball was snapped. Also, I stand by the observation that when David has had time this year... he's made great throws and great decisions. When that breaks down, all hell breaks loose. I think he's right on track with his progression... and if we get that o-line shored up, you'll see just what he can do with that arm.
At first thought, I was disappointed that we'd have to give up our 1st round pick plus more stuff that is valuable. But, Pace allows Carr to know his blind side is protected. Carr is too valuable to experiment on a Left Tackle. By the time the Wade experiment reaches fruition, then Carr could be a washed up quarterback. If Pace was in the Draft this year, he'd go top 5, even at his age. And, the Texans are a lot closer to the playoffs than half the rest of the league. A player like Pace could be HUGE. Last year the Texans were in the playoff race up until the last 3 weeks. Pace keeps the offense going longer.
The updated Chron article on Pace: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3085463 Texans hoping to pick up the Pace Premier tackle pays visit; Brown, Foreman released By CARLTON THOMPSON Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle The Texans made their boldest gesture of the offseason Monday, entertaining Pro Bowl left tackle Orlando Pace as prelude for a possible trade to pry him from the St. Louis Rams. They also granted linebacker Jay Foreman's request to be released and cut strong safety Eric Brown. Pace, a six-time Pro Bowler, becoming a Texan is hardly a foregone conclusion. The Rams repeatedly have said they don't intend to trade the unrestricted free agent, and if they did, it's reasonable to assume they might demand compensation equal or close to what they would get if they lost their designated franchise player to another team via an offer sheet. In other words, a pair of first-round picks. That seems unlikely, especially considering the Vikings included just one first-round pick in the deal that sent Randy Moss to Oakland last month. A league source said the Rams made a revised offer Monday and are adamant about making another team use an offer sheet — rather than a trade — to acquire Pace. Nevertheless, the Texans are making a hard push, and the Rams could have an uncomfortable situation on their hands if they don't trade Pace, who would rather play elsewhere. "The talks are going pretty good with Houston," Pace said. "Nothing has been written down or anything like that, but the fact I'm here and made the trip speaks enough for itself and their willingness to get it done. I don't think it will be a problem on that end. Really, it's up to St. Louis at this point. If nothing more, this puts a little more pressure on those guys." The Rams' window to sign Pace to a long-term contract closes Wednesday at 4 p.m. and won't reopen until July 15. If the Rams sign Pace to a long-term contract before July 15, they would lose the right to place the franchise tag on another player for the duration of that contract unless they do a sign-and-trade. The likelihood of a trade would seem to be greater if the deadline expires. At the very least, the Texans would have to part with a first-round pick and perhaps a player on their roster to acquire Pace. 'At a standstill' "This is typical of what's gone on for the past couple of years for me as far as being franchised," Pace said. "We're really at a standstill, and I don't know if things are going to be resolved. I would love to go somewhere and have that security and have a long-term future with a team and an organization. It doesn't seem like that's going to happen in St. Louis. "I would love to be here in Houston. Everybody in different organizations have their way of doing business. I think this is just the way the Rams choose to do business. From that standpoint, that's fine, but it would be fine if I go somewhere else and play also." As for money, Pace likely would command a contract similar to the one recently signed by Seattle's Walter Jones, who will make more than $52.5 million over seven years, with total bonuses of more than $26.7 million in the first three years, including a $16 million signing bonus. The long search The Texans have been trying to solidify the left tackle position since before their first season. They acquired five-time Pro Bowler Tony Boselli in the expansion draft, but he couldn't recover from multiple shoulder operations, never played a down for the team and retired before the 2003 season. Chester Pitts started every game at left tackle in 2002 and 2003, but was moved to left guard last season to make room in the starting lineup at left tackle for Seth Wand. The Texans allowed 49 sacks last season, fewer than just six teams. "Any time you think there might be a chance to acquire a player of his caliber, you certainly need to explore that option," Texans coach Dom Capers said of Pace. "He was the first pick in the (1997) draft, he's been to Pro Bowls, he's played on a Super Bowl championship team, he's one of the top left tackles in the game." Roster in flux Foreman and Jamie Sharper were given permission to seek trades two weeks ago, and both players asked to be released a week later. Sharper still is in limbo and could remain that way until after next month's draft, but Foreman is free to negotiate with any team. "I respect the fact they didn't string me along," Foreman said. The Texans will save just under $1 million on the 2005 salary cap by releasing Foreman and Brown, who lost his job to Glenn Earl last season. With about $5 million in available cap space, and another $4.75 million possible if Sharper is traded or released, the Texans have the flexibility to add Pace. "The ball is really in St. Louis' court as far as what they want to do and the decision they want to make," Pace said. "We'll see here in the next 24 hours or so. ... If we could make it happen, I'd love to be here (in Houston)."
