It's in your right not to take what I say seriously - it's a moot point to me. Personally, I think it's odd that people need to categorize folks and not allow for flux of thier opinions or views. I have no issue changing my mind, or exploring ideas. Some people will say, "Hey, you said x,y, or z before, you can't say a,b,c now!". And it's an intriguing thing, because that's what happens. People change their mind. A war critic becomes a supporter becomes a critic again. But in our world, people respect those who don't change their mind - and dogmatically stick to the same position - as a sign of conviction and strength. I see that as a weakness though. Need an example? Just look at our president.
Please change the thread title. The article is an op-ed, not a news article or an editorial reflecting the views of the NYT.
basso are those 18 tribal (Sunni) leaders the same tribal leaders that we've armed and is now undercutting the Maliki government (5 more Sunni members quit the government today) and causing his government to collapse?
basso has a history of doing this. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=125362&highlight=warming
And guess where the leaders of Al-Qaeda are hiding. And guess which poster of this article has let it be known that he is against going to the camps and strongholds where those Al-Qaeda leaders are holding up, training and plotting more terror. It is hard to take your claims of fighting Al-Qaeda seriously when you aren't willing to use the military to go after the Al-Qaeda leadership where they are currently residing.
basso just got eviscerated. 66% want our troop number decreased, or removed altogether. 73% think "the surge" has had no impact, or made things worse. 71% think the invasion and occupation of Iraq is either creating more terrorists, or having no impact. Were you saying something, basso? Speak up... I can't hear you. And you know what? If gives us no pleasure to watch this nightmare unfold. What is maddening to many of us is the simple fact that George W. Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the incompetent crew are still in the White House, dragging this horrific tragedy out, while they bungle Afghanistan. And people like you, a small minority, are enablers for them. Every stupid, bogus column, every lie uttered on a far-right talk show and repeated here... it all contributes to extending not only our own national nightmare, but that of the Iraqi people, as it makes us a weaker nation. But go ahead. Just be sure you don't injure something stumbling around with your eyes closed. D&D. Impeach the Idiot Who Got Us into this Damn War.
Basso's thread title shenanigans do annoy me occasionally, but in his defense, the op/ed writers are from the left leaning Brookings Institution. It would've had a similar effect if he had labeled it correctly.
I dont think any reasoned person would argue that point. the issue that some have with your stances.....especially when you atart out with a logic based opinion, and then all the sudden do a 180 without any measurable facts to back them up, is that with your track record people will assume you are the one playing politics.....or in your case....changing your stance to instigate argument. I will note to you tho...I never said which way *I* believed about this. I only attempted to point out why you were being accused of being "intellectually dishonest" as I seem to recall....that is how I got into this last time. dont really know why I bother since you miss the point every time it is mentioned. you are obviously too smart to miss accidently, so we gotta assume you are doing it on purpose.
For what purpose? Basso already produces far more passionate reactions then I do. Anyway, there's no point in trying to persuade anyone of what the nature of my posts are, it's actually irrelevant. Nor do I really wish to turn this thread into yet another discussion about myself - a truely worn and tired topic. My intent isn't to rub anyone the wrong way, but i do. Thus my tag line. My decisions may change, but for the majority of the past four years, I have supported remaining in Iraq despite thinking the initial decision to enter was a mistake. So really this "sudden" change is just returning to closer to my original stance until new information comes in that clarifies the picture of what is happening in Iraq.
It wouldn't be correct to say that it is a piece by the Brookings Institution either. It's an op-ed by two individuals.
You're right in principle, but there are times when leaders or established members of an organization make comments that are later misconstrued as the org's words or have at least made people assume it reflects the opinion of the org, such as the NAACP, military, or government branch. One's a senior fellow and the other is a director to a branch that focuses on the ME. So Basso should've correctly written "Brookings' senior members op/ed: It's working" as title, but I don't think many people would've objected or cared to just "Brookings: It's working".
i was saying that support for the surge seems to be, uhmmm, abruptly and strongly increasing: [rquoter]Latest poll shows growing support for Iraq war policy In the latest USA TODAY/Gallup Poll, taken Friday through Sunday, the proportion of those who said the additional troops are "making the situation better" rose to 31% from 22% a month ago. Those who said it was "not making much difference" dropped to 41% from 51%. About the same number said it was making things worse: 24% now, 25% a month ago.[/rquoter] http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/08/latest-poll-sho.html numbers still aren't stellar, but the trends are positive, which is all the more remarkable considering the MSM's efforts to the contrary. if only W would use his goddam bully pulpit.
Why should he have too when he's got the O'Hanlons and and Pollacks of the world carrying water for him. Yes, I agree, the White House PR machine has been making progress these days.
sad that people are so hell bent to no accept anything else besides its a total failure and that no relative progress has been made.
how many more years of war are we gonna have to hear the supposedly bi partisan supporters in their condescending tone tell us how we don't want progress. do people realize this war is going on 4 1/2 years?
flip... flop... this is why nobody takes you seriously. you admit you like to argue for the sake of arguing and you admit you take positions you dont agree with just to stir the proverbial pot. here you are in this very thread contradicting yourself. which one is it new yorker? do you support leaving b/c the war is a "failed cause" or for the majority of the past four years have you "supported remaining in iraq"? you cant pick both EDIT: my posts seem to rub new yorker the wrong way as he has me on ignore, so if anyone wants to repost so he can see his contradictory statements i would be much obliged. i anxiously await clarification!
