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NYMag: A Haven for late-term abortions

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Dec 15, 2005.

  1. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    i'm not dogmatic one way or another on abortion--although i do believe roe is bad law and has corrupted american politics--the issue is far to complex for a simple anti-abortion/pro-choice stance. it's not their intent, but this nymag article renders arguments such as "it's my body" fairly ridiculous.

    http://www.printthis.clickability.c...ws/features/15249/index3.html&partnerID=73272

    --
    It’s 8 p.m. on a Friday, and Adeena is lying on a bed in my apartment, squirming in pain, her pants unzipped to reveal a disturbingly large belly. We’re watching a DVD she chose from the corner Blockbuster: Coach Carter, starring Samuel Jackson and Ashanti. Jackson has just taken a job at a ghetto high school, and he’s supposed to whip a bunch of thuggish boys into a championship basketball team. Ashanti is tight-jeansed and saucy, but sweet enough to have for a boyfriend Kenyon, the one teammate who’s serious about college. Buff young men make jump shots to hip-hop music and mouth off to Jackson, but the plot is so thin it’s obvious they’ll all be hugging by the end.

    I’m a middle-aged white woman with a taste for Film Forum—Coach Carter is not what I’d rent on my own. But I volunteer with a local group called the Haven Coalition that offers free overnight home stays to women who come to New York for late-term abortions. Adeena, whose name has been changed to protect her privacy, is 24 years old and 24 weeks pregnant. She’d caught a Greyhound from Pennsylvania earlier that day, and spent the afternoon at a clinic in midtown getting part one of an abortion that will be completed tomorrow. “Pick whatever you want,” I’d said at Blockbuster.


    Abortions in New York
    Right now, there are more abortions performed in New York City than anyplace in the country. And in the coming years, there will undoubtedly be more as the city once again becomes a haven for women desperate for a procedure unavailable where they live.

    Adeena says she’s never been in a white person’s home. She peers at the paintings on my walls and at the jammed bookcases and Cuban bolero CDs and cassettes of classics from the Yiddish theater.

    “Can I ask you something?” she inquires. “Why you doing this?”

    “You mean sharing my place with you?”

    I tell her I’m upset that people like her have such a hard time getting abortions, and besides, I remember being young and being (more than once) in a similar fix. I don’t tell her about the differences: how I always had Blue Cross Blue Shield and never went past seven weeks.

    Adeena tells me she makes minimum wage as a health-care aide for mentally disabled children. “You have to pay a lot of attention to them,” she says, and I can see she’s trying to attend to me too. She wants to be sociable, but tonight it’s hard. This afternoon, sticks made of seaweed were inserted into her cervix, and a drug that causes fetal heart failure was injected into her belly. Now the seaweed is getting moist and swelling, and Adeena no longer feels movement in her womb. By tomorrow the swelling will have opened her cervix a few centimeters, allowing a doctor to extract the dead fetus with surgical tools and a vacuum machine.

    I don’t know how much Adeena knows about these details. But I know, and so do other Haven members. The organization gives us a handout explaining everything so we’ll be prepared if our guests experience side effects. Of course, some complications go beyond the medical.

    Why did she wait so long? we all wonder. We never ask.

    It’s not difficult in most urban areas to find an abortion clinic that will treat women in the first trimester, when the vast majority of pregnancies are terminated. But 1 percent of abortions take place after 21 weeks, late into the second trimester, and many of these women must resort to making a pilgrimage to New York City. More late-term abortions are done here than anywhere else in the country. The procedure takes two days from start to finish. There’s a night of waiting in between.

    Five years ago, Catherine Megill, a then-23-year-old counselor at a Manhattan abortion clinic, heard about a patient who couldn’t afford a hotel and was going to be sleeping on the street unless someone offered her a couch. Megill offered, and later she began asking friends to do the same. By mid-2001, her project had a name, Haven, and a half-dozen volunteers. It now has about 100 members and is the only group of its kind in the country. “You’ve heard of ‘armchair liberalism,’ ” goes the recruiting pitch. “But have you given any thought to ‘futon liberalism’?” Some 2,000 women have late-term abortions in New York City every year. This year, Haven members have opened their homes to 125 of them (including a 10-year-old).

    Most Haven hosts are white, Jewish, well schooled, and political. Some are empty-nesters with beds to spare and memories of the sixties and seventies women’s movement; many are young idealists with matchbox apartments and roommates who don’t mind an extra body crashing in the living room. Meanwhile, most of the women helped by Haven are black and Latina, with GEDs or less, low literacy skills, and not much civic moxie.


    This year, 125 women have stayed on the foldouts, air mattresses, and guest beds of Haven members, including Jennifer, pictured here.(Photo credit: Donna Ferrato)

    The two sides often baffle each other. Guests have been known to giggle at the gay-oriented titles on a host’s bookshelves, complain about the the uncool quality of her CDs, and demand to take cabs rather than the subway because, they think, that is what New Yorkers do. Some exhibit a shocking obliviousness to the situation they’re in: On the night between the first and second stages of her abortion, one patient told her host that she wanted to go out dancing until 2 a.m. “Plus, they all arrive with huge suitcases,” says Haven member Judith Levine. “Before we went back to the clinic, one woman took an hour to do her hair and makeup. She even had a curling iron.”

    Of course, the Haven members have their own preconceptions and idiosyncrasies. New hosts often fear that their houseguests will steal from them. (In the history of Haven, there has never been a reported theft.) And some Havenites insist that their guests eat “healthy” food—fresh fish, for instance, or vegetarian—even if they ask for Big Macs and Ding Dongs. Levine worries that she won’t know how to talk to her guests. “I think my nervousness is about the class difference,” she says. Katha Pollitt, the poet and Nation columnist, buys People magazine when she knows she’s about to be called up for Haven duty. “But then I worry: Maybe that’s patronizing. Maybe they’d rather read The Nicomachean Ethics.”

    Sometimes, bridging the divide is just impossible: One patient walked into a volunteer’s home, looked around, said she was going out for a smoke, and never came back.

    I deal with my own class anxieties by leaping into mom mode. I’ve just finished raising two kids, so I find it easy to bustle around, all chatty and gingerbready and just a little bossy. (Now, honey, no staying up too late. We’ve got to get up bright and early to go to the clinic tomorrow!) I set up my charges with DVDs, hot tea, perfumed soap, big quilts, soft pillows, and a portable phone with a calling card. For an evening, my performance seems to gloss over our differences—for the most part.


    Still, problems arise, often at dinnertime. Shauna, a patient I hosted a few months ago, demanded pasta, but her friend Lisa, who came on the bus with her for moral support, wanted chicken.

    “KFC ain’t gonna have no spaghetti!” Shauna scolded.

    “Let’s go to El Malécon,” I soothed. It’s a cozy Dominican place in my neighborhood, I explained, with pollo and pasta.

    Shauna got her spaghetti and Lisa had her chicken, but both went ballistic when they saw other diners eating yucca and fried plantains. “Nasty!” they said repeatedly, and not exactly quietly. I was annoyed with them, mocking my neighbors, but I think the problem wasn’t so much crude manners as raw nerves. On the subway, patients practically clutch me; when we transfer from the 6 to the 7 to the A, they look like they expect to fall down a rabbit hole. They didn’t come here for a vacation, and many are spooked by the city’s gigantism and noise. Plus all the languages. And the weird lady who’s taking them home for the night to God knows where. I try to imagine being an affluent white kid with a problem and being spirited by a black woman to a South Bronx tenement that contains the opposite of my cavernously tidy and quiet life: Fox on TV, lots of people in the house, boom boxes, secondhand smoke. Not to mention those seaweed things in me, the fetal heart attack, and thinking about what’s scheduled for tomorrow.

    The seaweed sticks are giving Adeena bad cramps. The only drug she’s allowed is Advil, and it’s not helping. Amid the pain, she’s struggling to stay with the DVD. Ashanti is pregnant. But her boyfriend, who’s trying for an athletic scholarship, isn’t happy about it. He tells her he doesn’t want a baby. Adeena groans. Whether from the movie or the pain, I can’t tell.

    Late-term abortion is serious, hard-core. At 24 weeks, a fetus is at the same stage of development as those gruesome images shown on pro-lifers’ protest placards. “The last woman I hosted showed me her sonogram,” says Jennifer, a 26-year-old host who lives in Carroll Gardens. “Then she pointed out that the fetus was a boy. God! I didn’t know what to say.”

    Every once in a while, after hosting a guest, I have bad dreams about sick babies. I have to remind myself that my dreams are just dreams, and that they’re less important than my guests’ realities.

    I know that, often as not, it’s poverty that has pushed their bellies into the fifth or sixth month. Medicaid in most states won’t cover abortions, and money for the procedure is hard to round up. Ending a seven- or eight-week pregnancy costs about $400. That’s a lot of money to these women. And the price shoots up as the weeks pass and the procedure grows more complex. At 24 weeks, the price is about $2,000 in New York—much cheaper than the $7,000 it costs in New Jersey, but still a virtually insurmountable sum.

    Adeena got here only with the help of the Women’s Medical Fund, a Philadelphia-based group that helps poor Pennsylvanian women pay for abortions. (There’s a similar group in Manhattan: the New York Abortion Access Fund.) “Patients often come in with part of the cost; they’ve borrowed $25 here and $25 there from friends,” says Susan Schewel, director of the Philadelphia fund. “They’ve postponed paying utility bills or they’ve pawned things. We had a woman the other day who sold her dog.”

    But chasing an ever-burgeoning fee isn’t the only thing that delays abortions. As Levine puts it, there’s often “some combination of denial and disorganization and general flakiness” going on as well. Some women have breakthrough bleeding, assume they’re having periods, and fail to realize they’re pregnant until after the first trimester. Other women delay seeking an abortion because they’re holding out hope that a relationship is going to work.

    One woman I hosted had five kids and a husband in the military in Iraq. “He’s got an immature streak that the war is making worse. I think he’s running around on me over there,” she told me. “What’s for sure is he can’t handle another baby right now, and neither can I.” Her pants strained over her girth. She’d waited this long, she said, because her mother, whom she worshipped, told her that if she went through with it she’d burn in hell. And also because “my sister told me abortions hurt.” I kept my face straight.


    The worst story is really no story at all. The first woman Levine ever hosted was here having a late-term abortion because she had simply “put off” dealing with her pregnancy until it was almost too late. The delay certainly didn’t seem to be for financial reasons: “She had a late-model pickup truck that was better than my car,” remembers Levine, “and I wondered, Why am I the one paying for dinner?”

    Levine rolled out the red carpet anyway. “I had to tell myself, ‘Every abortion is the choice of the woman having the abortion. This is about somebody else’s body. It’s not President Bush’s body, but it’s not mine, either,’ ” she says. “Being pro-choice is a morality that takes you morally out of the picture.”

    Most of the time, it feels good to have helped. I remember a mother who came with her 15-year-old daughter. For a while the girl—her boyfriend was also 15—had tried not to think about the pregnancy. Then she tried to raise the money while keeping the whole thing a secret. When her mother figured it out and got the girl to a doctor, they were told she must have an abortion in four days or it would be too late. The two arrived here in a fever of activity: multiple ATM transactions, hours of driving through the night, and sudden, heart-to-heart conversations. Over tea at my house, the mother gazed at the daughter as if she’d been hit by lightning and lived.

    I was relieved for them, but at the same time I felt a twinge of paranoia. What if the older woman was really the girl’s aunt or big sister and just pretending to be her mom? Right now it wouldn’t matter: Unlike many states, New York does not have a parental- consent law requiring that a minor get permission from a parent for an abortion. But this spring, the U.S. House of Representatives passed the Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act, which would make it a crime to give a girl an abortion without her mother’s or father’s okay. The bill hasn’t passed in the Senate yet, but if it does, Haven could be in trouble. “It would only take one crazy person to say, ‘You kidnapped my daughter,’ if you host a 15-year-old,” warned a Haven coordinator at a recent meeting. The organization is incorporating, so that if this happens, its board of directors, and not individual hosts, will take the rap.

    Back at my place, Ashanti’s nice boyfriend in Coach Carter has come around and decided to support the baby. But Ashanti has already had the abortion. She says she did it “for me.” But as she elaborates, all she talks about is Kenyon. “I think you should go to school and play ball and do your thing,” she says. “I think you should be all you can.”

    “Hey, girl!” Adeena yells at the screen. “How about you?” She turns to me. “What about Ashanti’s thing, huh? What about hers?”

    “You’re right,” I say. “What about hers?” It seems like Adeena is about to tell me her story: why she ended up needing the clinic and what she wants out of life when she’s finished there. But the movie credits are rolling and she asks for lights out. I set the alarm, fluff the quilt, and tuck her in.

    The next morning, we take the subway together back to the elegant neighborhood where the clinic is located. It is completely unnoticeable from the street, impossible to tell that inside there will be a waiting room that looks like a welfare office, with institutional chairs, soap-opera TV, and dozens of women sitting, sitting, sitting. In the several times I’ve gone there to pick up or drop off a patient, I’ve seen one protester, one time. She was white, well dressed, and birdlike, and when she tremulously scolded a young Latina woman about “killing your baby,” she was practically blown backward by a blast of “Get the hell outta my way what business is it of yours ****in’ goddamned puta b****!”

    On this day, the birdlike lady is nowhere to be seen. Adeena and I say good-bye at the clinic doors. She thanks me for making her feel “just like you was my moms.” In a few hours, she’ll be back on a bus to Philadelphia, free to do her thing, whatever that may be.
     
  2. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    Sad, to be certain, but I admire the woman for doing what she thinks is right by hosting people who would otherwise be on the street.


    If we could all get behind a reasonable compromise (abortions must be performed by 12-14 weeks, etc.) then late term abortions could be banned altogether along with second trimester abortions. If the GOP weren't so bullheaded, late term abortions would be banned already, but they refused to insert language protecting the health of the mother.

    If we didn't have to fight the pro-life/pro-choice war, we could come up with such a compromise, but since the pro-lifers are so intransigent on this issue, it will probably not happen any time soon.
     
    #2 GladiatoRowdy, Dec 15, 2005
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2005
  3. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    I was about to post this editorial in a seperate post, but I think it fits here too:

    THE WAR OVER OUR GENITALS

    Thu Dec 15,11:00 AM ET

    Pharmacists and Doctors Turn Judgmental
    By Ted Rall

    NEW YORK-After a 20-year-old Tucson woman is raped, she wastes three days searching for a pharmacy that stocks the "morning after" pill, each day of her search reducing the chances of the drug working. "When she finally did find a pharmacy with it," reports the Arizona Daily Star, "she said she was told the pharmacist on duty would not dispense it because of religious and moral objections."

    In Fort Worth, a CVS pharmacist tells Julee Lacey, 33, that she does not "believe in birth control" and will have to get her refill elsewhere. A San Diego County fertility clinic turns down a lesbian couple's request for artificial insemination not, the doctors say, because of their sexual orientation, but because they're not married. But gay marriage is illegal in California.

    The American Pharmacists Association allows its members to refuse to fill prescriptions on moral grounds, as long as they refer their customers to a more open-minded colleague. But thirteen states have proposed or passed laws that would eliminate the referral requirement, and the trend is accelerating. Last year the Michigan State House of Representatives overwhelmingly passed the "Conscientious Objector Policy Act," a statute that would allow doctors, emergency service technicians and pharmacists to refuse to treat patients or fill prescriptions on moral, ethnical and religious grounds.

    "The explosion in the number of legislative initiatives and the number of individuals who are just saying, 'We're not going to fill that prescription for you because we don't believe in it' is astonishing," says Gloria Feldt, president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America.

    When a soldier refuses an order to shoot someone, it's virtually impossible to obtain "conscientious objector" status. A soldier who refuses to kill faces a court martial and possible prison sentence. But when a pharmacist refuses to dispense a drug that would prevent a woman from becoming pregnant with her rapist's child, he's merely "following his principles"--and enjoys the support of his state legislature.

    Luke Vander Bleek, an Illinois pharmacist who says his Catholic faith led him to fight an Illinois rule that requires him to fill all prescriptions, including those for birth control, says: "I've always stopped short of dispensing any sort of product that I think endangers human life or puts the human embryo at risk."

    But Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich takes the side of patients: "It's not the job of a drugstore or a pharmacist or someone who works in a drugstore to make those decisions or to pick and choose who gets birth control and who doesn't."

    How can society reconcile these two competing, yet equally compelling interests? Surely a medical professional should not be forced to perform procedures or dole out drugs that violate his or her personal beliefs. I consider optional cosmetic surgery--face lifts, tummy tucks, boob jobs--degrading and obscene, symptoms of a shallow society's contempt for natural beauty and aging. If I were a doctor, I would refuse to perform these operations or refer patients to a physician that did. On the other hand, people should be able to walk into a fertility clinic with the reasonable expectation of getting help to conceive a baby--whether they're straight, gay, single or married.

    Truthful advertising may prove more effective, and certainly more ethically sound, than a sweeping ban on discretion among healthcare professionals. For example, the Target store in Fenton, Missouri that refuses to fill birth control prescriptions--"I won't fill it, it's my right not to fill it," Target's pharmacist told a 26-year-old woman--should be forced to post a large back-lit sign outside its store to save would-be birth controllers the trouble of looking for parking. "No birth control," the sign could read, or perhaps "sluts stay away!" Similarly the St. Louis-area Walgreens that recently suspended its pharmacist-refuseniks for violating Illinois' don't ask, must fill rule could post the chain's support of reproductive rights out front.

    Even if Americans embrace my proposal to publicize stores' and physicians' moral scruples for their convenience, the red-blue divide will remain the biggest obstacle to peace in the ongoing war over Americans' genitals. The rape victim who spent three days tracking down the "morning after" pill in Tucson, after all, would have had no trouble at all had she had the good fortune to live in Los Angeles.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucru/200512...vT9wxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--
     
  4. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    pro-"choice" supporters are flexible? i think not.
     
  5. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    In my experience, pro-choicers tend to be much more open to compromise. A VERY small percentage of pro-lifers go so far as to say they will even fight against bans on late term abortions and I believe that the VAST majority would support limiting abortion to the first 12-14 weeks if they could be assured that the pro-lifers would stop trying for further restrictions.

    If you think that pro-lifers are more flexible than pro-choicers, I would invite you to meet and speak to more of them. They would surprise you.
     
  6. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    i wasn't suggesting one party or the other is "more" flexible, rather i think they're equally intrasigent. my wife went to one of the seven sisters and is about as thoroughly indoctrinated w/ pro-choice dogma as one could imagine. her aunt runs several abortion clinics. to be fair, she's had her life threatened many times. neither side in my opinion is open to compromise, although most americans seem to be. it's in this way that roe has corrupted the issue. by short-circuiting the democratic process, a many americans feel their voice hasn't really been heard, and the "debate" such as it is, is dominated by extremists in both camps.
     
  7. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    The best thing that we can do is stop being extremists and support constructive dialogue over the radical wings of each camp.
     
  8. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    It will never stop being an extremist issue because the fulcrum is whether or not the object of obsession is a human being or a lump of cells.
     
  9. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Pro-choice flexible? Ha! The pro-choice side won't even agree to:
    banning partial birth abortion
    requiring parental notification
    requiring consent of the father
    requiring notification of the father
    banning abortion after the second trimester
    banning abortion after the first trimester
    banning abortions based only on convienence

    Neither side is flexible, but the pro-life side is inflexible because we don't think there are many compelling reasons to allow baby murder. What is the pro-choice side's excuse. If the new justices on the SCOTUS live up to the reason they were put there, then the whole debate will change. Soon abortion will be a legislative issue, and then the people will truly have a voice. With Republicans in control of the house and senate, abortions should soon be illegal.
     
  10. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    They already have agreed to most of the things on your list. There are major requirements in almost every place that make it difficult to get a partial birth abortion, and less, but still some restrictions on who is allowed to get an abortion after the first trimester.

    After the first tri-mester it is no longer abortion on demand.
     
  11. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    I think you are making a lot of assumptions that simply aren't true. Most pro-choicers that I know would be willing to support all of these if the pro-lifers would agree to leave the first trimester alone.

    If it is in the first trimester, I think the mother should have a choice and that choice could be made based on anything the mother thinks is compelling, including convenience. If you are espousing only allowing abortion based on health reasons, incest, or rape, then you are one of the intransigent ones I talked about in my post above.

    To many of us, it isn't "baby murder," and language like that is part of what makes this issue so contentious. I disagree that the pro-choice side is as "inflexible" as the pro-lifers because we are willing to compromise while people like you won't settle for anything short of a complete ban.

    AS explained above, the pro-choice side is, in general, willing to accept reasonable restrictions where people like you won't settle for anything but a complete ban. That shows clearly which side is flexible and which side is not.

    Which will truly be a dark day in our history. I guess you are willing to create an environment where medical procedures are carried out by unlicensed personnel in unregulated facilities, but I am not. We had that situation once in our history and the results were untenable. Some people just don't learn from history.
     
  12. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    If you look here you will see that this has been discussed before. All a woman has to do is claim stress about supporting the baby, or some other "soft" health concern and they can have an abortion at any stage of the pregnany. There is, in effect, no restriction on abortion in the US.

    I am well aware that it is not "baby murder" to the pro-choice side, that is why I specified that it was the pro-life POV. I also readily admitted that I was one of the intractible ones. That does not change the fact that the pro-choice legislators have not allowed the things on my list to pass. Whatever you and your pro-choice friends agree to, the decision makers on the por-choice side are every bit as intractible as on my side and we are not quickly moving anywhere away from the 100% abortion on demand that we have now. I am hopeful that changes are coming.

    I would rather not sanction killing babies because some women are going to do it anyway. People are going to commit 1st degree murder even though it is illegal. It would be much safer for them to do so if it were not illegal and they could do it in broad daylight with no fear of repercussions. I support keeping murder illegal anyway.

    Maybe it is a good thing that women incur the risks of a back alley abortion. Afterall, abortions are fatal for the baby almost 100% of the time. The chance of being raped, murdered, or even just given subpar medical treatment may convince them that having the baby as nature intended and then giving it up for adoption is the better option.
     
  13. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    I agreed with you till the bottom. I certainly don't have a problem with some sort of ban on partial-birth abortions. HOWEVER, there has to be an exception for the health of the mother as there is with other standard abortion restrictions. When you speak of flexibility of the pro-life movement, this is a great example of where they have failed. A ban on partial birth abortions has passed at both the federal and state level before and the courts , consistently, have struck down all of these pieces of legislation because they failed to put in an exception for the health of the mother. I certainly would be the first to say that we need compromise on this issue which is why i support it but please put in some sort of health and needs exception.

    As for the last part, considering I know people who've gone through an abortion before, I find the last part to be somewhat offensive to me personally. Your murder analogy is somewhat questionable because this simply isn't just a deterrence issue of an idea (a.k.a murder) that is always wrong. This is something that also has a personal affect on the person doing it. Your analogy is tantamount to saying its the girl's fault for getting raped because she dressed like a skank. Or saying that you deserve your STD because you shouldve stayed abstinent. It entirely shifts the burden to the person getting the abortion who in many cases didn't have a choice. (i.e. if they were raped) Also, it is concievable that the mother may not have the resources to support the child and needs to get an abortion.

    And finally your adoption alternative, while nice in theory, isn't so nice in the real world. American adoption rates are collapsing like crazy because many have started to adopt kids from other countries for lower prices from conditions percieved to be worse than America's. Also, overall adoption rates are falling as well. In many cases, children are left in foster care and never given real parents. I certainly support the idea of banning certain late term abortions and am willing to compromise on the issue but there is no need to go overboard in ending abortion because it's not an idea that will simply disappear.
     
  14. Jeffster

    Jeffster Contributing Member

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    But, as StupidMoniker just said in his last post, the "health" exception makes the bill completely useless because it is so vaguely defined that anything can be considered a "serious health risk." I have never understood how any point after conception can be considered the beginning of life. It is so arbitrary. The quote in the article said it pretty plainly, abortions are only not immoral if you remove yourself from any morality. It's a cold, unfeeling, and horrifying stance to say that poisoning and hacking up a baby is excercising one's "right to privacy."
     

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