ny times - big drop in percentage of americans calling themselves christian

Have you ever read the old testament?

 

So your whole premise is that religion has been an effective practice because morality is nothing more than a deterrent to having to answer to a supernatural supreme court in the afterlife and being given an eternal life sentence in a flaming pit of fire?

Anyone who has taken an entry level philosophy class could very easily dispute this morality argument.

 

of course

what you miss is the New Testament serves as the new path -- and it certainly doesn't condone any of the things I listed.

 

He did -- he brought humanism to American living rooms.

 

Unfortunately the lines have been severely blurred between Christian RELIGION and Christian FAITH to most people today.

Christianity isn't supposed to be a religion. Religion is law. It's telling people what they should or shouldn't do. It's condemnation. It's self-conscious resulting in people either not feeling good or accepted enough. People turn away from it because it makes them feel bad. I know I felt this way growing up in a Catholic church. They preached about how we need to do all these things to EARN God's love and acceptance.

Christianity is about you already have God's love no matter who you are or what you've done. It's about GRACE. Jesus took all condemnation and judgement with him on the cross giving us a direct relationship to a FATHER.

Too many churches have preached the "you do and you do not" rather than "you are". They've preached "you work for" rather than "you rest in". Of course people are going to turn away from that. And, of course (like others have mentioned), it doesn't help there have been people who have used Christianity in VERY non-Christian ways.

 

I think the same criticism can be assess to Islam as well
However i don't know the religion or the people in it enough to delve too too deep into it.

Rocket River

 

I think if religion is just reduced to a reward and punishment system that is where things start to break down. While religion certainly has been used for most of it's history that way and also for control of masses such control becomes very tenuous when there is a diversity of different religious views and people.

For example if the idea is that good behavior, including fidelity to religion, is rewarded in the afterlife the question inevitably comes up what about good people who aren't part of their religion? For example if one sees their Hindu neighbor who is a very nice person who helps people as compared to someone else who is Christian who cheats and swindles people it becomes difficult to reconcile the idea that Christian, as long as he ask for forgiveness, can go to Heaven while the Hindu won't. To reconcile that sort of conflict can either drive one to question their beliefs or else drive one to a more fundamental belief.

My own view is that the value of religion isn't in reward and punishment or control but in giving one meaning in a universe that doesn't seem to have any. That is why I think most people still consider themselves spiritual even if they don't consider themselves religious.

 

I grew a neck beard just browsing this thread.

 

What if he's both...

 

Talking snakes, whale swallowing, creation myths, humans made in an image of a metaphysical being, human centric religion in relation to a cosmic scale, the tenuousness of existence of any species on the geologic scale, the potential for life to arise on billions of planets, understanding the chemistry, physics and brain functioning of perception and how that is difficult to relate to a non-organic sentient existence.

not outdated... emerging.

It appears that human life is a function of the potential that exists in the observable universe and is not dependent on a moral judging creator. We are one of a trillion trillion planets, existing for a an infinitely small fraction of 14 billion years. The egocentrism of the human religion is laughable really. The idea of an eternal hell is the funniest part.

Today the least educated of my children knows much more about the natural order than any of the founders of religion.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2011/12/the-20-best-christopher-hitchens-quotes/

 

Thanks internet and google. The ability to validate/refute things relatively quickly and the speed in which information can be sent to a huge audience by somebody who is not famous has helped in educating people.

In addition, folks who probably felt alone as a non-believer while living in small towns has now discovered that there are more people in this world who have the same point of view.

The ability to access information instantly is a big blow to religion.

 

Runs both ways
The Ability to fake and false information to get everywhere instantaneously

Secrets and lies. . . are now hidden in plain site
Half information and distortions are now seen as full truthes more easily

This is a very confusing time . . which is why learning to THINK is more important than memorizing facts and figures

Rocket River

 

This logic is not very compelling.

 

So basically God changed his mind and became less of a dick? Would that make the old testament god character immoral?

 

Actually it really is a large reason why there is a dramatic surge in atheism/agnosticism.

 

God less of a dick? I have heard some say that he didn't need to be as stern as time went on, like a father reprimanding his children easier as they grow and know better. Whether you believe that, it is a personal choice I suppose but it would explain his "dickness" as circumstantial.

There is no doubt that the Internet has helped the growth of minority and extremist thought. It is easier to find atheists, just as it is easier to find a likeminded militant Christian or Muslim.

 

Agreed

Rocket River

 

That's not the point. The old testament is still part of the bible and gives people who call themselves "Christians" plenty of excuses to be assholes.

 

nope

you're wrong