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NY Tea Party Gov candidate: move welfare recepients to prison dorm/re-education camp

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Oski2005, Aug 22, 2010.

  1. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

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    Just get some people to do landscaping, mow the grass...It's hot outside. Earn their checks. I know this is the nod your head and agree forum but I declare enough is enough!

    Holler!
     
  2. Buck Turgidson

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    Seems we are both correct, different songs, same name. I'd say Motorhead's is the better tune, but there's no way Lemmy & crew can touch the brilliance of this video:

    <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-FofaqfQt2E?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-FofaqfQt2E?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

    Yeah, this forum probably needs more assrock videos.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Even better lets get them out of cold NY down to warm South Carolina or some other southern state where they could work the fields and in exchange get food and housing.. :p
     
  4. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    I don't know how the funding for that would work, given that it is a state program. If there was a nationally funded program and the people wanted to participate and move to a southern state, I wouldn't see any problem with that, despite your rather clumsy attempt to associate the program with slavery. :)
     
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    OK what if NY had people working the fields in upstate?

    Anyway if this is a voluntary program why keep people who participate in prison?
     
  6. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    fixed
     
  7. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    If the job that is available is farming, I have no issue with it. Do you have some specific issue with farming as opposed to manufacturing, telemarketing, or other generally unskilled labor?
    They are not keeping them in prison is my understanding, they are converting the prison into a dormitory. Are kids that live on campus at college being kept in prison?
    (emphasis mine)
     
  8. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Member

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    prisons cost a lot of money to run, so in effect you would be paying more to deal with welfare recipients.

    what?
     
  9. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    You don't think it condescending to assume poor people need to be taught hygiene and physical fitness?

    Homeless people aren't usually on any public assistance, that's why they are homeless. They usually get that way from long term alcohol and drug abuse that leads to them losing their jobs and the support of friends and family, not laziness.

    Again, you really think you can just retrain a prison guard to do the jobs that people need college and associate degrees to do? How are prison guards going to suddenly become able to teach people computer skills? Welding and lathing?

    Plus, welfare has been reformed quite harshly already. In a lot of places you need to participate in workfare to get welfare and workfare usually means getting paid less than minimum wage.
     
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  10. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    yeah, but Scrooge turned into a prince of a man. maybe this tea party governor will, too!??!
     
  11. JCDenton

    JCDenton Member

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    LOL. People don't NEED college degrees to do the vast majority of jobs. Many jobs now require college degrees as a signaling credential because leftists made them laughably to obtain in the name of "access" to higher education, but they certainly aren't required to do the work. This may surprise you, but the U.S. functioned just fine even before we had secretaries with useless masters degrees and six-figure student loans.
     
  12. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    I've heard you are a troll, but I'm going to assume you genuinely misunderstood me. I meant you need some kind of a degree to teach. I was talking about the prison guards being completely out of their element as teachers and social workers.
     
  13. nickb492

    nickb492 Member

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    Are you saying higher education is not relevant to America becoming a more successful country? Never used the ignore button, but damn that post was so incredible that I might.
     
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Not in the abstract but something like this does hit upon some ingrained historical issues. Technically what this program is offering isn't exactly slavery but is something closer to indentured servitude. I would have to hear all of the details of it but on the face of it it is Dickensian.


    No but a campus isn't a prison. When you design a dorm on a campus you don't design it as a prison. Now if they are completely gutting the prison down to studs and rebuilding it that may be one thing but given the cost that would entail I doubt it.
     
  15. JCDenton

    JCDenton Member

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    No, that's a straw man that you made up. What I'm saying is that higher education is tragically wasteful in its current form. It's relevant to America becoming a more successful country for the small minority of intelligent people who can handle an academically rigorous program. For the vast majority, it's pointless. Having little Sally with her pathetic little 1100 SAT study philosophy isn't going to make America more successful. Nor is the natural progression of that, which involves little Sally ending up as a degreed secretary, starbucks barista, or waitress.

    Far too many resources are expended on training the not-very-bright for jobs that don't exist, or won't be realistic options given their credentials. This is doing them a tremendous disservice because they're wasting four years of earnings/experience while racking up massive loans only to end up in jobs they could have acquired right out of high school. Even worse, in the name of providing "access" to these dullards, higher education has become incredibly expensive for the intelligent people who really should be there. Perhaps you are unaware, but before leftists funded a tuition bubble with student loans, it was pretty easy to pay for school out of pocket. Despite the skyrocketing costs, value is lower than ever. With so many dumb people in college, they can't educate anyone, it's just social promotion now. And have you bothered to check out the unemployment rate for recent grads?
     
  16. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    I don't know that an assumption is being made that poor people need to be taught hygiene and physical fitness. Maybe they have collected data showing that a significant number of the people who would be likely to participate in the program would benefit from counseling in hygiene and physical fitness. If that is the case (and I am certainly not privy to any such information, but it is not my program) I would not find in condescending in the least.
    I never said the homeless were lazy. I do think they would benefit from such a program.
    I think you can retrain a prison guard to teach a physical fitness class, or supervise telemarketers, or supervise field workers. You don't need degrees to do that. You also are not prevented from having a degree just because you work in a prison.
    Great. Now in addition to getting paid less than minimum wage (only with the state receiving the benefit instead of a private employer who probably bribed someone getting a sweetheart deal) the people can receive free housing and training.

    Look, I am not saying it is a great program. I don't have nearly enough information to make that call. I just think the knee jerk reactions to it are silly. From the information presented, I fail to see the inherent evil in the program that so many are railing against.
    I would say it is less like indentured servitude, and more like company towns. Company towns of course are not an ideal situation, but they are a far cry from slavery or even indentured servitude. Having them run by the government would also avoid one of the major pitfalls, having the resident become so indebted to the employer that they can never pay it off by overcharging for everything in the company controlled stores.
    What if they didn't completely gut it down to the studs, but did remove things like bars and fences, the things that generally make prisons different than other buildings?
     
    #36 StupidMoniker, Aug 24, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2010
  17. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    What studies, what research? Did you actually read the whole story? You think it wrong to react to what a person has actually said, I find it odd how you base your thoughts on completely made up "what ifs" and "maybes" to justify something you don't want to disagree with.
     
  18. JCDenton

    JCDenton Member

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    Do you believe that there is no correlation between income and hygiene?
     
  19. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    I don't really see a problem in converting prisons into dorm rooms and putting able welfare recipients to work. What is wrong with that basic idea? If I were homeless I'd probably jump at the chance to have a roof/shower/food/money in return for manual labor.
     
  20. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    Rob the rich
    Feed the poor
    Till there are
    No rich no more

    -Ten Years After-

    My idea is free heroin centers for those who choose. You come in, get all the free heroin you can do and you don't check out.
     
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