Sorry for the derail, but Major or RM95, do you work for Baker Botts and if so, are you going to the function at the Wortham tomorrow night? Just wondering because I hear there's a pretty good band playing...
It isn't close to the same situation, but what about John Rocker? Mets' fans gave him hell (deservedly) for making all those stereotypes about New York City. I guess it's not ok for people to stereotype their city, but they can do it to us? Classy. Considering the state income tax in New York, it's doubtful that the Mets' deal was better than ours. At best, the two were comparable. Regardless, that's not my issue with Beltran. Can he take the highest offer? Absolutely. But he said money wasn't the top priority. He said it was about winning. He said it was about a good "fit" and hinted that he didn't like the privacy invasion that comes from playing in a town like New York. If he had come out from the beginning and said that money was his biggest priority (which some athletes do), McLane would've known that we couldn't compete with New York and we could've turned our attention to Alou, Finley or another outfielder. He didn't, and it cost us. Does it happen all the time in real life? Absolutely. It still doesn't make it right. It's not about loyalty. It's about having the decency to handle negotiations with class and respect for the other side, and all athletes should do that, regardless of how little time they've been with the organization.
But how did it cost us? We're better off without having to pay any of those guys. *Shrug* I guess we'll all have to agree to disagree. I've always felt that apathy showed alot more. We've moved on. Walk it off. We're better off without him. Show that it's nothing to you and move on. Instead, it just looks pathetic booing the guy like we actually wish we had that contract on our books.
Booooo the Utah Jazz!! Booooo the Republicans!! Booooo the Democrats!! Booooo the French!! Booooo New York!! Booooo the Middle East!! Booooo Ashlee Simpson!! Booooo taxes!! Booooo the alien invaders who will enlsave us all in 2012!!
This is an entirely different subject, but I disagree. If this team wants to make any kind of serious postseason run, we need to trade for a corner OF with some pop this weekend to replace Chris Burke. I think we'll be able to do it, but it'll cost us some prospects as opposed to signing them for just cash in the offseason. No, it's not the end of the world, but it easily could've been worse, and I fault Beltran for not considering our organization's position by not telling us his priorities from the start. But, I know that's a subject for another thread, so I'm fine agreeing to disagree.
Here's what I think. I think fans were booing the principle behind what he did, so it doesn't matter that we're better off without him, which we are. I also don't think the booing will be as bad tonight. We've been waiting to get that out of our collective system since the very moment (11pm on a Saturday night) Matt Jackson broke in and announced that a Beltran/Houston deal was not inked before the deadline. I mean, as soon we heard the news, was anyone NOT thinking to themselves "man, I can't wait until he comes to MM for the first time"?
Neither of us do, but we have a good friend that does. Again, we don't know this. We heard nothing firsthand from either Beltran or Boras about where he planned to sign and what interested him. Sure, he said vague things like it's about a good fit and all. But maybe he thought that NY was a better fit? They have a Puerto Rican GM - maybe he valued that? Maybe he <I>likes</I> the NY atmosphere. We made all sorts of judgements about what we thought he liked based on 4 months of seeing him, but who's to say we're right? Maybe he wants the opportunity to be in the NY spotlight? We have no idea what was going through his mind. All we have to go on that says he lied to the Astros is McLane... but keep in mind, player after player (Kile, Hampton, Bagwell, Kent, for starters) have said bad things about the Astros' contract negotiations process, and all have conflicted with what the Astros have said. So who knows what the truth is there.
No, we don't know. But it was strongly implied that the clubhouse atmosphere and fit were things he preferred about Houston. Even if that wasn't the case, he could've still told this (that he preferred the NY atmosphere) to McLane earlier in the process so McLane could go after his secondary targets. For example, I've read from several sources that many in the Astros' front office wanted to go after Alou in mid-December and felt they could easily get him within their budget. But McLane put that on hold because Boras/Beltran had him feeling optimistic about the Beltran situation. Whether it was the money, atmosphere, clubhouse or whatever that led him to New York, it's clear (imo) that he could've done a better job of letting the Astros know that earlier in the process so they could make other plans.
But who's fault is that that they decided to put all their eggs in one basket? You can't blame Beltran for dragging out negotiations as long as possible - that's how you get yourself a better deal. Was he supposed to just sign early just to give the Astros a chance to get other free agents? No, he had the power to hold out and get himself a better deal and so he did it. Sucked for us, but he did what he had to do.
If Beltran would have told McLane he wasn't going to sign with Houston (and this assumes he already knew this early in the process), then Houston would have pulled out, potentially costing Beltran upwards of $30,000,000. Is it really reasonable to expect this?
I was going to go to last night's game, but I knew it was going to be sold out and I didn't want to risk my horse not having a spot at the watering trough. Plus, I heard there might be some black folk there and I'm all out of rope. Booing is part of sports. To act like it has meaning the same as verbally assaulting a random person on the street is silly. To some people, it may have that meaning, but to most it just makes the game that much more fun. I was booing his ass at home watching on TV. I loved every bit of his 0-4 night.
That still doesn't excuse his lying. He was going to get huge money anyways, with his talent and his October performance, I don't care how you want to spin it - there's no defense for lying like he did.
He didn't have to tell McLane flat-out no. He could've simply been vague and non-specific and not told things to McLane to deliberately mislead him into being optimistic (unless you think McLane is just dumb, and maybe he is). It may not be reasonable to eliminate the Astros completely early in the process, but regardless of potential salary, I think it's reasonable for him not to blatantly mislead our front office. Yes, it's possible that he didn't, but McLane would have to be one of the dumbest men on earth if that were the case. Partly McLane and partly Beltran's. We've seen how the Astros handle free agents over the years. They have no problems viewing a player like Beltran as a one-year rental and letting him walk after the season - see Randy Johnson. There's something Beltran did that led our front office to be more optimistic than usual. I don't know specifically what it is, but things went down behind the scenes to mislead our management and I don't think that's right, even if it got Beltran more money.
Apparently Astros gave him the same offer that was given to Vlad guerrero by the Angels;namely 5 yrs for 70 million or so. Boras said beltran was a much better player than vlad. In reality he is not nearly as good. I mean everybody leaves via free agency and such but to do what he did was just flat out wrong. Besides with no state income tax in TX our offer was just the same as theirs. If he really liked NY then he should have just told drayton that he was not gonna sign . A player who has hit .300 only once in a season and had only one good postseason does not deserve a no trade clause over seven years or so. I am glad because the mets will have to pay him all that money for his sub par performances from here on in.
And when your team gets screwed, you boo - that's part of what being a fan involves. I really don't understand the issue you guys take with it. No, he didn't light Bum Phillips on fire with a torch made from the body parts of Nolan Ryan and Hakeem Olajuwon, but many feel he wasn't truthful with the Astros and that the "no-trade clause" quip was a lie to coverup that he never seriously considered Houston -- that he really was only using the team and toying with the fans in order to get to the Big Apple (though he begrudgingly had to go to the city's minor league team). I don't really see the problem with booing him at all.
Beltran betrayed us. We embraced him as a city. The guy could have ran for mayor and I would have voted for him. He won community awards, was involved in our society -- this newcomer was accepted into Houston culture in such a short time. During the season and offseasn he always said the right things: he loved the team, loved his teammates, and loved the city -- he wants to come back. He gave the perception that, all things being equal, he would come back. He dragged contract talks out, and spurned us because the no trade clause didnt cover the full length of his contract. You may argue that its the nature of the business and pat him on the back for getting himself a better deal. but some people value loyalty and integrity, and that's why I'm bitter.
