another thing to really remember is even if we dont sign anyone we can be major players in trades. we can trade anyone for anyone. we dont need to match anything. we can go out and trade for disgruntled players while only giving up bench crap (if the other team wants to dump salary, lux tax, etc). we can sign one max FA, trade for another, plus mcdyess - not too shabby. add to that two rooks (depth) and we will probably be better than we are now (had we kept nve, raef) in 2-3 years.
I'm over the initial anger of the trade. Ready for, yet another, rebuilding effort and, yet another, head coach. Sigh. Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I think we're NOT going to pull a Chicago/Orlando and go for free agents. I think we're gonna pull a Clippers and dump Howard next year for young talent. I think we're gonna be the team everyone calls when they want to make a move to free up a little cap room. We're gonna have a young, talented team. It's just gonna take a year or so. Sigh.
The only problem is now you only have 2 guys on the team worth anything , and one of them is injured. There just aren't hardley any building blocks left there. Losing Lafrenz (the 2nd most valuable commodity on the whole team) was not worth getting rid of NVE. I understand the cap room creation argument, but that only works if you have something to work with. As in the Bulls case, likely all you will be able to do down the line with this room is overpay 2nd tier FAs like Eddie Robinson or Ron Mercer. 1st tier FAs will stay with the current teams (for slightly higher MAX than allowed via FA) or go to a team with even more promise than their current team. I don't see Denver being in the latter group.
the mere fact that you cant even name raef lafrentz (even though hes been mention about 10485 times) shows how much merit this post has.
true, but with the lux tax and alot of guys not wanting to play where they currently are (every year there are a few), teams will just want to let them go. we can trade cheap bench players just so they can avoid the lux tax and get rid of a guy who doenst want to be there. its possible. its been done before. no the problem is 1) we had to give raef up to dump nve 2) we dumped ALOT MORE than just nve 3) its almost impossible to have cap room and something to work with and even so we are going to have mcdyess, which is about 100 times more than any other team with major cap room has ever had. its a very good position kiki has left us in (not now, in a year or so). and you still ignore the value of cap room and trades. its huge. oh and dont compare denver to chicago. theres a reason chicago cant sign anyone whereas many other teams can.
I never thought of the possibility, but it makes sense, if it can be done: trade Juwan Howard in the off-season for established players. Include the Denver and Dallas #1 picks. No, I don't know to which team. Offhand I'd say the Knicks could use the rebuilding/salary dumping (as long as Sprewell was one of the dumpees).
He's right. Everybody judges this trade negatively because the players that were dealt away are good maybe great players...but unhappy. Basically the same rules would apply if the players sucked and had a big contracts. It hard to move them unless you lose something in the deal. Example: Like Cato, if he never showed what he has done this season so far, there absolutely no way to get rid of him, unless me give something more in the deal, that is valuable. Dallas won because they knew that Denver was in trouble with all the MNGT problems plus their player problems that derived from poor MGNT. You have to give up something to get something. And what happened here is that nobody wanted NVE at his price and his attitude problem. Denver was arleady dealling with him first hand and REALLY did not want him neither, so they had give some more talent to get other teams to jump at the deal, so they threw in the next problem player in Lafrenz, which is also unhappy in Denver. And just got rid of all the problems an now is going to start all over. Which would have happen anyways if they kept these players. At least they got something out of it, (hopefully) I don't see it yet, but this has to be the MGNT must be thinking. It just sucked for the Nuggets, I think they should have gotten more, but I think with NVE changing his trade restrictions the last couple of weeks and then not playing a couple of games the Nuggets waited to long to make things happen and did not get fair value for Lafrenz. Add all the league could see all the problems. It just sucks for denver
well it kinda sucked before the trade (as this board noted so well on many occasions) but it wont suck in a few years (unlike before the trade where it would have sucked for many years).
Here's something to chew on. Will McDyess wait for Denver to rebuild the team? I ask this question, because McDyess will be 28 years old by the beginning of next season. That's typically considered his prime playing years. He's got 2 more years left on his contract & will be 3 months shy of 29 years old by the time Denver starts their free agent shopping spree. He has to exercise his Early Termination Option by July 1 of the year that precedes his option year. Unless I'm mistaken, that means he'll have to make a decision by July1 of this year. Now, he could do that & still resign with Denver during the 03/04 off season. http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#43 44. What are option clauses? What kind of option clauses are there? An option clause allows a contract to be extended for one additional season after the date it is scheduled to end. For example, a six-year contract with an option for the seventh year means that if the option is exercised, the contract extends through the seventh season, but if the option is not exercised, the contract ends after the sixth season and the player becomes a free agent. Options must be exercised by the July 1 that precedes the option year. This off season, Denver will be about $2 million under the cap & will only have their $ million & mid-level (which should be approximately $5 million) exceptions available to pursue free agents. So will most of the other NBA teams. Here's a link to the list of available free agents after this year. There are some solid players that are unrestricted, but notice that most of the really good ones are restricted free agents. http://www.realgm.com/src_freeagents.php?year=2002 As others have alluded to in this thread, Denver has only 2 players that would be considered of value in McDyess & Posey, & I would consider Posey to be a second tier player. Since McDyess (I assume) would be untouchable, that leaves only Posey to be used in any trade scenarios, unless they trade draft picks. How is Denver set for draft picks to trade? I would find it hard to believe that any team (except Denver) would trade quality players during the off season for expiring contracts, unless they were piggybacking an albatross contract with the star player. Those types of trades usually take place during the season & just before the trade deadline. Denver will most likely have a lottery pick in the range of 1-7 this year. If the pick ends up in the top 3, then Denver should be able to arrange a trade for a quality player or pick a promising young prospect. However, this is all based on chance. If they end up with the #5-7 pick, then the quality drops & the trade options decrease. I don't know how McDyess would feel about it, but drafting rookies to rebuild the team might scare him off. The available free agents the following year, are really nice. But again, most of the really good ones are restricted free agents with the teams possessing their full bird rights. Also, most of those teams have a lot of available cap space as well. However, that could change for some of those teams, based on what they do with free agency this off season. Here's the list of free agents for the 03/04 season, when Denver will have all their available cap space. The second link shows the projected team salaries for the 03/04 season. http://www.realgm.com/src_freeagents.php?year=2003 http://www.realgm.com/src_teamcap2.php Now, back to my original question. Will McDyess wait for Denver to rebuild the team? Here are the facts as I perceive them. 1) Denver will only have the mid-level & million dollar exceptions to acquire a free agent this off season, but so will most of the other teams. 2) McDyess will be 29 years old at the beginning of the season, following Denver's free agent shopping spree. No problem there. 3) Most of the quality free agents this year & next will be restricted free agents, with their team's having full bird rights. 4) McDyess has to decide whether or not to exercise his option, without the ability to know what future free agents will come to Denver. He could, however, exercise it & resign with them after their free agent shopping spree, which brings me to #5. 5) McDyess, after exercising his option, would have to wait for Denver to negotiate & sign some veteran free agents, before deciding to seek offers elsewhere during the 03/04 free agent period. He could negotiate some deals while he's waiting, but if teams suspect he's pulling a Webber, they might just back away & spend their available dollars elsewhere. That would put him in the same boat that Taylor ended up in, during his free agency. I guess we'll find out how good a GM Kikki is in the next two years.
damn you do more research than most nuggets do on this! anyways, the team you see now PLUS a rook or two and some role players is the team wehave next year. nothing happens this summer cept minor little moves. dice is already signed too. it the following summer. the key thing is that dice wont really have to wait if we play it smart. unlike chicago who tried to stock pile rookies (did a bad job drafting IMO) and just couldnt get it to work for years, we instead could go with a really solid lineup in just 2 years (starting next). dice wouldnt have to wait. one solid FA, one draft pick and one trade plus dice/posey and hes already got the best denver nuggets team hes been on in his many years in denver.
This article is not exactly a ringing endorsement by McDyess. I've looked for an article with direct quotes from McDyess & there aren't many. Most of the articles are quotes from Kikki, that say McDyess understands how important he is to the Nuggets & how he had been consulted by management about the trade prior to it happening. It seems to me that Denver is walking on egg shells right now in regards to McDyess's pending decision about his contract. McDyess hasn't come out with a statement of any sort that would indicate he intends to be a big part of the rebuilding project. This comment is possibly the only real hint he's given as to how he feels about the future. "I never said I was happy," McDyess said. "I just take it now as just a business." Once his agent starts talking to him, I would think that, that comment would be their guiding principle for his future decisions. http://insidedenver.com/drmn/nuggets/article/0,1299,DRMN_20_999391,00.html Nuggets hedge on when McDyess will return Trade adds to his discomfort of sitting -- and team's losing By Kyle Ringo, News Staff Writer Antonio McDyess is not as happy about the Denver Nuggets' trade Thursday as general manager Kiki Vandeweghe first made him out to be. In fact, McDyess' long-term future in Denver clearly is in question. McDyess is frustrated with losing, frustrated with the turnover in personnel and frustrated that he is stuck being the franchise player here while friends around the league are thriving with more successful organizations. In making a trade Thursday that sent four teammates to Dallas for Juwan Howard, Tim Hardaway, Donnell Harvey, a 2002 first-round draft pick and cash, Vandeweghe said McDyess' happiness was a top priority. After his first practice involving his new teammates, McDyess said he is not happy, though he understands Nick Van Exel forced Vandeweghe's hand. "I never said I was happy," McDyess said. "I just take it now as just a business." The 6-foot-9 power forward has missed every game this season since undergoing surgery Oct. 12 to repair a partially torn patellar tendon in his knee. He left plenty of doubt when asked about his future with the Nuggets and what it might take to keep him here. "I've been here four years, and we still ain't made the playoffs," McDyess said. "I'll just have to see how things go." McDyess can opt out of his contract after next season, when Denver will have plenty of money under the salary cap to spend on other talent. Whether McDyess will do so depends on what Vandeweghe is able to do before then. McDyess is not willing to approach next season as a lost cause from the beginning. "I know I ain't played this year, but winning is my main focus," McDyess said. "Hopefully, next year will be better than this year, but it just seems like it ain't getting better. I'll just try to look at it in the future like it would." McDyess tentatively was scheduled to return to the court March 1 against Memphis at home, but Vandeweghe is waffling on the decision. Vandeweghe vetoed McDyess' decision to return to the court Wednesday at home against Utah, saying his franchise player needed more practice time, even though doctors had cleared McDyess to play. Vandeweghe then set March 1 as a target date for McDyess to return. "If he's not back on March 1, I'll take the heat for that," Vandeweghe said. "It's way more important for me to have Antonio feeling good, feeling confident and, physically, feeling like he's not going to hurt something else. "In some ways, maybe I shouldn't have picked a date. I still feel reasonably comfortable with that date. If we have to wait a little while longer, I'll take the heat for that." When asked if he felt well and felt like he could play now, McDyess smiled and said: "That's a good question." "I can go through about an hour and 15 minutes of practice, but after that it just begins to ache on me," McDyess said. "I know the game is not that long. I don't know if (my knees are) telling me I'm not ready or not. I'll just have to see and play it by ear." Denver plays its first game with its new additions tonight at Portland. The new players will be introduced as Nuggets in front of the home crowd for the first time Sunday, when Denver will play host to Atlanta. The Nuggets have only 11 active players and 13 total on the roster. Vandeweghe said the organization is bringing back Mengke Bateer, a 6-11 center who played on the Chinese National Team in the 2000 Summer Olympics. Bateer played with Denver during the preseason, then returned to China to honor a commitment to the national team. Vandeweghe did not know when Bateer would return to Denver.
pffft...the suns are done. they might not even make the playoffs this year and look to be rebuilding already. the outlaw and penny contracts are killers.
Thanks. It's easier to back up one's point when you do your homework first. This is my whole point. McDyess has to decide what he's going to do about the last year of his contract by July 1 of this year. A rookie or two & some role players, imo, won't answer his questions about his future. If he decides to opt out, then the following summer, when Denver has all of their cap space, he'll be an unrestricted free agent. What free agents will sign with Denver, if McDyess isn't under contract? Imo, none. How can Denver play it smart & not have McDyess have to wait? The only way that McDyess wouldn't end up waiting on Denver to rebuild the team would be, if he didn't exercise his option. If he does exercise his option, then he WILL have to wait while Denver signs free agents, if he wants to stay with them. The problem with waiting, is that if Denver is unable to lure any major players or solid role players, then he could run into a similar situation as Taylor did. That is, the free agent dollars dry up. I doubt very seriously that his agent would allow that to happen. While I disagree with your comparison to the pretrade team, I will agree that you could end up with a really good team, if McDyess doesn't exercise his option. That would mean he would be under contract when Denver hits the free agent pool in 03/04. However, the problem I see currently, is that McDyess hasn't said anything to make me think he's planning to be around by then. In fact, he's stated: http://insidedenver.com/drmn/nuggets/article/0,1299,DRMN_20_999391,00.html "I never said I was happy," McDyess said. "I just take it now as just a business." "I've been here four years, and we still ain't made the playoffs," McDyess said. "I'll just have to see how things go." That doesn't sound like a player that has plans to be around for the long haul. In fact, it sounds like an angry player. Kikki needs to find a way to lock McDyess up long term & convince him that the team will add some key veterans & not just a bunch of rookies. If Denver loses McDyess for nothing, then it'll be years before they'll bounce back. If he exercises his option, then Denver should trade him for as much as they can get. For instance, send him to Orlando for as many of their #1 picks & short term contracts as they can get. I wouldn't wait to do a sign & trade after his contract expires, because you wouldn't have any leverage & all your free agent negotiations would be disrupted. But, that's just my opinion.
I don't think they would have traded for Outlaw & Penny if McDyess had resigned with the Suns. The Kidd trade also might not have been done. They would have basically had a lineup of ... Kidd ??? Marion McDyess Big Jake That's not a bad lineup.
very much appreciated. i hate when im talking with guys who just blab garbage they hear on tv or read on the internet without actually doing their research first. he has to decide before next season even starts? i find it very hard to believe that a team cannot sign a FA with all that cap space, the lux tax, and two good players already on the team. i think we should wait til at least he plays a few games. plus i highly doubt kiki would have asked dice for his thoughts on the trade before hand, dice said no, and then done it. there had to be at least the chance dice stays. if not, we get cap room and/or return talent via trade. very unlikely he leaves as a FA to another team.
hottoddie; you realize how hard it is to quote your replies....lol. so long, so many paragraphs - is there a short cut version to make this easier that i dont know about?
