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Nuggets Blog-Carmelo Anthony Trade Proposals..

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Clips/Roxfan, Aug 2, 2010.

  1. Clips/Roxfan

    Clips/Roxfan Member

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    Trading Melo is not an option


    by Nate Timmons

    Jul 23, 2010 5:00 AM

    My collegue here at Denver Stiffs, Andrew Feinstein, suggested in his latest piece that, "if Melo waffles on signing the extension ... the Nuggets may have to do one more right thing and trade Melo while they can." While I agree that Denver should do something if Melo doesn't re-sign, I don't think anyone will be happy with the options.

    Before we start ... I'm totally getting ahead of myself with any kind of trade talk involving Carmelo Anthony, but Melo's contract status is a hot topic and I feel the need to weigh in.

    Most Nuggets fans remember in the summer of 1996 when Dikembe Mutombo signed with the Atlanta Hawks. Not only was Mount Mutombo leaving the Nuggets, but even worse Denver received nothing in return for their All-Star center. But in today's NBA, teams almost always get at least something for their departing free agents because of the way the current collective bargaining agreement works. With the sign-and-trade tool, players like LeBron James and Chris Bosh can use the loophole where they "re-sign" with their former team for the more money and years than the team they are switching to is allowed to offer and then they are "traded." So, Cleveland and Toronto gave into their hard-stances that they wouldn't do sign-and-trades in order for their teams not to get Mutombo'd. (Stealing the LeBron'd type phrase from Feinstein.)

    Now for some gruesome truth that might become reality ...


    If Melo decides to leave the Nuggets in free agency (assuming Denver doesn't trade him before it reaches that point) it's almost a foregone conclusion that Denver wont get Mutombo'd again because Melo will certainly want the money attached that a sign-and-trade can bring him. Now, Miami didn't really pay a high price to Cleveland or Toronto as they didn't have to give up any players (probably good since they didn't have anyone to trade) in the deals, so it doesn't really bode well for the Nuggets to let things get to the same point Cleveland and Toronto did.

    Here is what Cleveland got for James.**

    MIAMI GETS:


    ■LeBron James, who signs a 6-year, $110 million contract

    CLEVELAND GETS:

    ■Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017
    ■2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans
    ■Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City
    ■Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012
    ■A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.

    Here is what Toronto got for Bosh.

    Toronto will get back the team's own 2011 first-round pick (initially sent to Miami in the 2009 Shawn Marion-Jermaine O'Neal trade) and the compulsory $16 million trade exception created by the imbalanced trade.


    BUT ...

    It's not really looking too good for Denver if they do decide to ship #15 out of town, if he doesn't re-sign with the team. A lot of you reading this might be thinking ... "Melo would bring back all sorts of talent in a trade!" Guess what ... I don't think that's the case and the reason is because Melo has a pretty good stranglehold on the situation.

    The rage these past couple of days around the League has centered around Chris Paul aka CP3 aka Mr. Flop. Fans on this site, as well as on other sites, can't believe Paul has the audacity to leak a list of his preferred teams to the media. Well, unlike Melo, Paul doesn't have nearly the gripe on the Hornets that he needs at this point. New Orleans can pretty much trade him wherever they like because he's under contract for next season as well as for the 2011-12 season, with a player option season coming for the 2012-13 season (that's the one he will more than likely tear up if he's not on a team of his approval). So if you trade for Paul now, you'll get him for all of the upcoming season as well as however much of the 2011-12 season that is played (depending on how the lockout plays out). So the Hornets have some options and the first one is to try to convince Paul that the team is heading in the right direction with a new general manager and head coach.

    The Nuggets are also in a similar boat with Melo as they are looking to improve the team for a championship run and let's face it, to make the team a competitive one that Melo wants to play for. Now, let's pretend the worst happens ... Melo wants out and he's doing enough behind the scenes to show the front office that he's serious. This situation would likely cause the team to start looking for trade partners while at the same time trying to keep it as quiet as possible, you know, like when you're in a crowded room and feel a little gassy and you know if you can keep it quiet people may smell it and look around to see who else notices, but they don't have that "WHOA!" reaction with an abrupt head turn. (I had to call my buddy for this reference because I've never been in that kind of situation myself and he eats a lot of fried foods.)

    But let's face it, once the Nuggets fart they may as well grab a trumpet and announce to the league that Melo is on the trade block. Denver might be able to go to a few select teams that Melo approves and keep things pretty quiet, but he's too big of a star not to have some leaks. Are you thinking, "Teams that Melo approves?!?!...Denver can send him wherever they like!" I don't think that's true.

    Melo is only under for the 2010-11 season as he has a Player Option season for the 2011-12 season (no duh Nate!). What does this mean? It means that if Denver is pushed to look for a trade during the season then the team that wants to trade for him will want some assurance that they are not just renting Melo for the remainder of the 2010-11 season, they will likely want Melo to sign an extension with them before completing any trade with Denver. What does that mean? It means Denver's list of trade partners now looks like I would after going one-round with UFC Heavyweight Champion Brock Lesnar. About the only hope Denver has is it that a general manager crazy enough to think he can convince Melo to stick around after a trade - comes knocking on the door. What's that ... Billy King is back in the NBA and running the New Jersey Nets?!?!

    Now, a couple other hurdles the Nuggets have to overcome.

    1.) Teams will not want to gut their roster to get Melo because we'll presume he will want to go somewhere that he can win or to a team that has a star in place to play alongside of ... so he wont be inking an extension with the like of the Golden State Warriors or Memphis Grizzlies.

    2.) Teams will not want to give up a King's Ransom for Melo if they think they can sign him in the offseason. Again the Heat only had to part with draft picks and trade exceptions to land James and Bosh as they already had the two committed to sign with the team.

    And let's toss in a third part to this equation ...

    3.) Since we deal in conspiracy theories on Denver Stiffs (right Laker fans?) we'll have to assume there could be a hint of truth to the did he or didn't he Chris Paul wedding toast rumor that Paul, Amar'e Stoudemire, and Melo could form their own StarTrio in New York ... if this is the case then the Hornets could strike a deal with the Knicks first and take all their assets, leaving the Knicks waiting on Melo in free agency, thus leaving the Nuggets getting Mutombo'd or something close to it.

    Okay, now the Nuggets have to find a trade partner ... the list as I see it includes the following teams: Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Clippers, Chicago Bulls, Houston Rockets, New Jersey Nets, New York Knicks, and Orlando Magic.

    Not the most extensive list and not one with the jewels you would hope for. Melo is due $17.1 million this season so let's run through some Melo for trade possibilities just so you get a sense of what the Nuggets are facing. I'm not combining Kenyon Martin, J.R. Smith, or any other players in the deal from the Nuggets perspective and I'm not making a list of players I want, but players I think teams would be willing to part with in order to land Melo somewhat on the cheap because let's face it, if Denver is forced to trade Melo they wont get back equal value.

    Los Angeles Lakers:
    Andrew Bynum $13.8 million + 2 more years and roughly $31.5 million
    Sasha Vujacic $5.4 million expiring contract
    Any 1st Round draft picks as they own all their future picks

    Los Angeles Clippers
    Chris Kaman $11.3 million + 1 more year at $12.2 million
    Al Farouq-Aminu $2.5 million + 3 more years of roughly $9.3 million and a qualifying offer of $5 million
    Randy Foye $4.2 million + 1 more season of $4.2 million
    Any 1st Round draft picks as they own all their future picks
    Minnesota's 1st Round pick in 2011 (protected Top 10), unprotected in 2012.

    Chicago Bulls
    Luol Deng $11.3 million + 3 more years of roughly $39 million (BARF!)
    Kyle Korver $5 million
    Any 1st Round picks
    2012 Charlotte Bobcats 1st Round pick (heavily protected)

    Houston Rockets
    Kevin Martin $11.1 million + 2 more years of roughly $24.9 million
    Patrick Patterson $1.8 million
    Jared Jeffries $6.8 million expiring
    or
    Trevor Ariza $6.3 million + 3 more years of roughly $21.6 million
    Any 1st Round picks
    2011 New York Knicks 1st Round pick (right to swap, 1st Overall protected) VALUE!
    2012 New York Knicks 1st Round pick (heavily protected)

    New Jersey Nets
    Travis Outlaw $7 million + 3 more years of roughly $21 million
    Derrick Favors $4.1 million + 3 more years of roughly $15.1 million and Qualifying Offer of $7.8 million
    Kris Humphries $3.2 million expiring
    Courtney Lee $1.3 million + 1 more year of $2.2 million and Qualifying Offer of $3.2 million
    Any 1st Round Picks
    2012 Golden State Warriors 1st Round pick (heavily protected)

    New York Knicks
    Eddy Curry $11.2 million expiring
    Kelenna Azubuike $3.3 million expiring
    Danilo Gallinari $3.3 million + 1 year roughly $4.9 million and Qualifying Offer of $5.5 million
    No 1st Round picks until 2013 as they owe the Rockets their 2011 and 2012 picks

    Orlando Magic
    Vince Carter $17.3 million expiring
    Any 1st Round picks (will be low since they are a playoff team)



    Not a very pretty list above, but I don't see Melo assuring any other teams that he'd sign an extension with them before a trade and the Clippers are REALLY pushing it to be on the list. I'm sure there will be arguments with the list above and with the players that could be had for Melo, but again ... he really does have the Nuggets by the throat in a sense because of his impending free agency. A team making a playoff push could be talked out of some young talent if they think they are in the title hunt and want to rent Melo to increase their chances and hey, John Salmons re-signed with the Milwaukee Bucks in that scenario last season as he was traded near the deadline from the Bulls to the Bucks.

    What do the Nugget have going in their favor? Quite a bit actually. For all the hype we hear that Melo wants to head back to the East Coast ... it's just that - H.Y.P.E. I'm a bit more stressed that he bought a house in Los Angeles, but stressed is too strong of a word. Also, all the public backlash towards James could help Melo realize that that doing something for one team could cement his legacy and set him apart from his 2004 draft class buddies. Having Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson come out and say they would not have formed a SuperFriends team could also play a role in Melo's decision as there is no doubt he respects both NBA legends.

    I'm also not totally sold on the fact that Melo would want another Lakers situation on his hands ... meaning why go play for the Eastern Conference and chance having to get past the Miami Heat every year just to get to the Finals when you could stay out West and beat SuperFriends for the title.

    There is no doubt that small market fans are in a frenzy right now. The Raptors got burned, the Cavaliers got burned, and now it appears that Hornet fans might get burned as well. The Melo situation will have a magnafying glass on it because it could prove to be a final dagger in small market fans' hearts. People will look around and say for every Kevin Durant there is a Dwyane Wade (the orchestrator), a LeBron James, a Chris Bosh, a Chris Paul, and perhaps a Carmelo Anthony that tore out their fanbases' soul. Fans in small markets wont want the Superstars because of the fear they will leave.

    What would happen if fans started rooting for team play over Superstars? Could the era of the Superstar be over? Have fans been giving too much credit to individual players all this time without realizing that great teams always prevail over great players?

    It's always been about finding the right mix of players to create the best team. The Nuggets have been trying to find that winning combination since they moved from the ABA to the NBA and whether Melo is here or not, the team will keep looking for that right mix.

    It's funny to have to talk about Melo leaving now, but there is no time like the present right? I guess the surefire way to figure out if Melo is leaving town would be to place spies around tattoo parlors in the Denver area and if he's adding the words "LOYALTY" to his torso, the Nuggets better start working the phones ... whether we like what we get or not.



    **NBA Traded Player Exception: If a team trades away a player with a higher salary than the player they acquire in return (we'll call this initial deal "Trade #1"), they receive what is called a Traded Player Exception, also known colloquially as a "Trade Exception". Teams with a trade exception have up to a year in which they can acquire more salary in other trades (Trade #2, #3, etc) than they send away, as long as the gulf in salaries for Trade #2, #3, etc are less than or equal to the difference in salary for Trade #1. This exception is particularly useful when teams trade draft picks straight-up for a player; since draft picks have no salary value, often the only way to get salaries to match is to use a trade exception, which allows trades to be made despite unbalanced salaries. It is also useful to compensate teams for losing free agents as they can do a sign and trade of that free agent to acquire a trade exception that can be used later. Note this exception is for single player trades only, though additional cash and draft picks can be part of the trade.

    ntimmons73@yahoo.com

    Twitter: Nate_Timmons



    http://www.denverstiffs.com/2010/7/23/1581502/trading-melo-is-not-an-option
     
  2. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Poor Denver. They're going to get screwed. Unless Carmelo agrees to sign an extension, with his new team, no GM will risk trading for him.
     
  3. withmustard

    withmustard Member
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    why does he consider number 1 protected value, yet top five a (heavily protected). Nice read though. I think the clippers' minny pick looks better than our NY pick.
     
  4. WinorLoseMate

    WinorLoseMate Member

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    If Melo goes to Lakers for Bynum, Vujacic and picks I will be pissed.
     
  5. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    Wait, the Clippers have Minny's unprotected 2012 first rounder?

    And does this imply Minnesota is an even more incompetent team then the Clippers?
     
  6. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Melo will sign the extension with the Nuggets. Too much guaranteed money to turn down.

    I think we should keep this horse in the barn until training camp. If Melo hasn't signed by then, let's start beating it again.
     
  7. KingStevo10

    KingStevo10 Member

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    Agreed
     
  8. Nuggets4

    Nuggets4 Contributing Member

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    I know nothing, but I'd keep your horse beating stick ready...
     
  9. BDswangHTX

    BDswangHTX Member

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    i like these two trades. alot.
     
  10. Eddie281Houston

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  11. Audioout

    Audioout Member

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    Question for you. If you had to trade Melo and were (essentially) in rebuilding mode, would you entertain trading Birdman and his 4 years of salary with him or is he a keeper?
     
  12. Depressio

    Depressio Contributing Member

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    KAAAAAAHHHHN!
     
  13. lionaire

    lionaire Member

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    I wouldn't mind him going to the Bulls or Magic. Excellent breakdown though.
     
  14. nebula955

    nebula955 Member

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    top 5 is "heavily protected"?
     
  15. Nuggets4

    Nuggets4 Contributing Member

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    If Melo's gone, I would imagine everyone would be available for a price.

    I know nothing right now. Nothing. I think the front office has quite a few balls in the air right now, all depending on what Melo does. If he doesn't sign an extension, I imagine they blow it all up. If he does, I imagine KMart's expiring contract is being shopped heavily for something that can help us now.

    All I know is that other than Morey and Presti, I'm not sure there's a front office I would rather have than the one we do right now. It's kind of nice not being perpetually afraid of your front office (I'm looking at you Bernie Bickerstaff and Dan Issel).
     
  16. DraftBoy10

    DraftBoy10 Member

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    If by the deadline, Melo does not sign an extension, and Denver is panicking about it. It means he's leaving. No team should really invest that much then. It's pretty much a done deal that he won't come back.

    He's on a top 3, 4 team out West. Can make 22mil/year in his extension, and still not coming back? There's something out there he wants, and no team that can acquire him will have that.

    Sadly, not even us.
     
  17. goahead3

    goahead3 Member

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    i don't think melo would be a very good fit for the lakers. they need someone reliable from the arc to spread the D; everyones playing zone on them these days.

    him playing for the bulls would be sweet though. i could see him and rose playing very well in a drive and kick game.
     
  18. Clips/Roxfan

    Clips/Roxfan Member

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    Carmelo Anthony will not sign an extension and will become a free agent in 2011

    By Matthew O'Brien - Assistant Editor


    Aug 3, 2010 - Prepare for the Summer of Carmelo. Indeed, what LeBron was to 2010, Carmelo figures to be to 2011. At least, if a report from HoopsWorld's Alex Kennedy is to be believed. According to Kennedy, sources close to Anthony have indicated that the Nuggets star will eschew signing an extension with Denver in order to become a free agent next summer.

    Given that Anthony has had a max offer on the table from the Nuggets for the past several weeks, it would hardly be surprising that he would not re-sign with Denver now; if he was going to, he likely already would have. Still, Anthony has at least the rest of the season to mull over the Nuggets' offer. The bigger issue is that there will likely be a new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) next summer (and possibly a lockout), that would presumably limit the size of contracts. By waiting to sign, Anthony could be forgoing a sizable chunk of change. Again according to Kennedy, Anthony isn't too worried about these risks, and prefers the freedom of free agency to the certainty of an extension.

    If Anthony does reach free agency, he will be the undisputed prize among a class that will lack the depth of this past year's loaded crew. The Knicks, in particular, have made no secret of how much they covet the former Syracuse star. A final sign of which way Anthony may be leaning are reports that he has put his Denver home up for sale....

    For more on Carmelo Anthony and the Nuggets, check out Denver Stiffs.

    http://www.sbnation.com/2010/8/3/1603761/carmelo-anthony-not-sign-extension-nuggets-2011-free-agent
     
  19. ASidd_1990

    ASidd_1990 Rookie

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    [​IMG]

    Ariza + Martin + Patterson + Hill + NY first round picks for Carmelo + Anderson

    Brooks/Lowry
    Budinger/Taylor
    Carmelo/Battier
    Scola/Anderson
    Yao/Miller/Hayes

    Git R' Done Morey!
     
  20. ASidd_1990

    ASidd_1990 Rookie

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    Take it for what it's worth. I don't know if this Alex Kennedy guy is credible but this is what he just tweeted:

    http://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA

     

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