Now that he's playing well again, do you like Vince Carter more or less?

Guys, if you polled all of the NBA GMs, how many would take VC vs. T-Mac? Probably none! Why, T-Mac is better than VC in every aspect of the game except outside shooting.

When Orlando played Detroit in the playoffs a couple of years ago, T-Mac almost single-handedly willed them to the 2nd round. He was completely unstoppable in the 4th quarter of some of the games, including the last 2 minutes. He ran out of gas and flopped in Game 7.

The Toronto teams were very talented and VC had a good supporting cast. His body language during the playoffs was noticeably more passive than the regular season. That's why Oakley got on his case. VC was relying more on fadeaway jumpers and did not resort to attacking the basket when the jumpers didn't go in. When this happened 2 (or was it 3?) years in a row people rightfully started questioning VC's toughness.

When the game is on the line, T-Mac has always wanted the ball. This has NOT been true of VC. Maybe this year is different for him.

I repeat the Bottom Line: If you polled NBA GMs, they would choose T-Mac (or Kobe) over VC by somewhere between 28-2 and 30-0.

 

i like Carter alot, he is a beautiful player. but i'm happy with T-Mac

 

Give me a break everyone loves Vince Carter ~ some say he has no killer instinct, but aren't they forgetting his Olympic gold medal? Have we won one since he played for the US team?

 

Just getting Jefferson back makes them better than the Celtics. I think the Celtics will eventually implode. Paul Pierce, Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis are all very selfish and having them on the same team is an unstable situation. The relative calm will not last. Ainge would do well to dump one or two of them before next year. If all three come back, not even Doc Rivers will be able to keep control of that team.

If the Nets bring back Kidd, Carter & Jefferson they will win the Atlantic division next year easily. Kidd is the perfect point guard to get the most out of Carter and Jefferson.

 

The Celtics are a lot like the Rockets in that if they're clicking, they can beat any team and if they're not, they can lose to any team. They're success is self-determined.

However, I'd disagree that the star players are selfish, with the possible exception of Pierce - but, hey, he's never packed it in as bad as Carter did with the Raptors. Walker's shot selection is atrocious, but he doesn't play selfishly - yesterday, for instance, he was trying to avoid shooting/passing the ball even when he had the matchup advantage and getting in everyone else's way with screens. Davis isn't nearly as selfish as his reputation suggests, and his game is identical to Richard Jefferson's.

In any event, I think Ainge is going to stick to the roster he has. When the players play together for a few seasons and the young core develops, the C's will find their top form, kind of like Detroit did. They're younger than the Bulls, and none of their veterans are over thirty except Payton.

I think they'll be even with the Nets next year and win ~50 games, though questions about Kidd's health after his microfracture surgery make me favor Boston a little. And the Celtics youth movement (Jefferson, West, Allen, Banks, Perkins, first-rounder this year) is probably better than the Nets' (the guy with no vowels in his last name, Planinic, first-rounder this year.) Things are looking up in Boston. I wish the fans would be patient.

 

I agree. Kidd is a journeyman. Better trade him while his value's high and he isn't too old for some nice infusion of talent to grow in a vulnerable east. They won't get anywhere without a front court.

Kidd's trades where never popular, but they weren't unpopular either....

 

You make great points.

I don't see the three guard lineup working in the playoffs. Ideally, it would be best to trade Kidd for a bigman like Zach Randolph. Though it would take a genius for that team to work. More tinkering would be needed. Carter could even find a new home....

Anyways, I would go even as far as scratching the next year by dumping Kidd for lotto picks. Jefferson will want an 11 figure a year contract even if the CBA changes dramatically. Having 3 players taking up 75% of the current cap doesn't sound agreeable to the Nets. None are cornerstone bigmen and all have missed a lot of games during a season due to injury. Then I guess the dilemma would be either Kidd (imagining great value here...) or Jefferson. I don't know if Jefferson could get his full sign and trade value after the injury, but it'd be a real coup if they could sign him for 7 or 8 million.

If they do dump kidd, signing Damon Stoudamire or a short contract with Van Exel could make decent stop gaps while making the most out of their new picks.

Since they're all inter-related (Jefferson wanting more if Kidd goes, Carter playing well, excess baggage, etc...), the choice of standing pat makes good sense. I just think they're spiralling towards Knicks spending oblivion if they do.

 

I think Jefferson already signed an extentsion worth about 73 million.

 

What three guard lineup are you talking about? Jefferson is a forward. Also, Zach Randolph is one of the biggest head cases in the NBA. Portland regrets giving him that big contract. At least Kidd has his head on straight when he's on the basketball court. Randolph took a big step backwards in his development this year before he got hurt.

How can you trade Kidd for lotto picks when he makes $18 million a year? The salaries have to match unless one of the few teams with that much cap space is stupid enough to use it all on Kidd. And which team would give up a lottery pick for Kidd and his salary if they could? None!
Jefferson signed a 6 year $78 million contract with the Nets last year. So no "coup" with him is possible. The Nets have publicly stated he is the future of the franchise, so he's not going anywhere.

I don't see how standing pat moves them toward what the Knicks are. The Knicks have 6 or 7 power forwards on their 15 player roster, courtesy of Trader Zeke. Besides Marbury, no one on their whole team is as good as Kidd, Carter or Jefferson. You give those three a training camp together and plug decent journeymen players inside, the Nets will win 50 games in the East, easy. The Knicks won't sniff 50 games for a while, unless Trader Zeke is let go in a hurry.
I'll say this: If Kidd is traded for nothing but salary matches or he gets hurt again, all bets on the Nets are off. But they would still be way better than this year's Knicks disaster. Zeke has left a trail of destruction since he stopped playing.

 

Vince and Richard Jefferson can both play off guard or forward. Anytime you have the three (w/Kidd) on the court, those two would play swingmen with Kidd picking off the open man or allowing one to slash in off the defensive rotation.

It doesn't have to be team for team. You can have a third party like the Clippers or a brokerage team like New York and Dallas to seal the deal.

I didn't disagree with dharocks on the unlikelyhood of getting a good deal for Kidd. Looking at the long term, it's a better idea to dump him now.

My bad. So those three will pull in over 75% of the current salary cap. Would you project a healthy Nets squad to be one of the top 3 teams in the East in overall standing? Top 8 in the league?

The Knicks had the Ward/Childs, Sprewell and Houston lineup that looks like what the Nets are trying to pull. Post Ewing, they landed in the playoffs but kept the delusion of winning it all while being grossly over the cap. The Nets GM has to fill in a minimum 9 more players with the remaining 25 percent of the salary cap, and that's being conservative considering the extra 3 players you can stash on the IL and the rising salaries of the Kidd/Jefferson/Carter.

Winning 50 games in the East isn't a great accomplishment. Heck, you could win that by trading for a PF like Zach Randolph. Randolph might be a wreck of a black hole, but he'd still make the point that the East isn't all that.

 

I like Vince Carter 2000 better than Vince Carter 2005.

better hops. quicker. draw more double teams. very much exciting to watch him then than now.

 

Unless Kidd gets moved, here's what the trio of Kidd-Carter-Jefferson are going to cost the Nets all on their own

Next Season: $40 million
06/07: $44 million
07/08: $47 million

As it stands, they only have 7 players under contract past this year (not including Uncle Cliff - team option).

Their depth is going to be painfully shallow, but if they bring in a frontcourt guy that can play, they shouldn't fall too far.

Evan

 

and that was the last time Vince decide to I guess try untill now in N.J. the guy played great that year and had his chance to shine but missed the shot and everyone blames the UNC graduation thing as why they lost game 7 but I do like Vince again now that he is playing but I dont think he is the same player he was, I just dont see him as equal to Tmac anymore is it cause im biased maybe? But vince in 2000 was far better than he is in NJ even though he is scoring in NJ Vince used to be Tmac but could take it to the hoop like Jordan and Nique he was prob. one of the best at getting in the lane and dunking the ball but i dont ever see the same explosiveness that he used to have. Ive watched this guy since his days at UNC and know that he reached his peak unfortuantely he didnt stay up top for very long maybe if he can follow next year with the year he has had in Jersery he will return to TMAC and KOBESQUE. (Kobe is slowly falling out of his top spot though I must say now that he is alone)

 

I think one should ask oneself, whether you like it happened to you, before you say like it or not, or don't care. A city depended on him, gave him all the previliges he asked or not asked. His mother has a special parking lot at ACC. He deceided to push for long contracts to AD, JYD, and Williams. AD cried and moaned and dragged JYD with him to Bulls, and got Rose back. He is Toronto's franchise player, he IS the Toronto Raptors. All of a sudden, VC was not happy about "rebuilding" and wanted to be out.

As a rockets fan, do you want the same thing happen to you? do you want TMac or Yao to pull a drama like that? If you don't like it, how could you say you have no problem with him doing that to others?

 

Regarding Vince Carter in playoffs, here are his career stats:

Regular Season:

455 Games, 23.8 Pts, 5.30 Rpg, 4.0 Apg, 1.34 Spg, 0.90 Bpg, 2.34 TOs
in 37.7 Minutes with percentages of 44.7 FGs, 38.8 3 Pt., 78.9 Ft

Playoffs:

15 Games, 25.7 Pts, 6.40 Rpg,5.0 Apg, 1.53 Spg, 1.60 Bpg, 2.33 TOs
in 43.9 Minutes with percentages of 41.5 FGs, 36.6 3 Pt., 81.0 Ft

Based on numbers, i would say he has elevated his game in the playoffs. I haven't seen his playoff games, but in the regular season he has made countless clutch shots, I can not label him as a choker in my book. And doesn't anyone else find a thug like Charles Oakley questioning somebodys character funny?

I also think he has taken too much blame for his time in Toronto. He's only human after all, and he carried that **** organisation many years in his back, made them a ton of money and they hire complete idiots as coaches and Gm's to ruin his best years. I mean when half of your roster starts to demand trades, isn't that somewhat alarming?

I wish him well in New Jersey. I think they have a shot at Eastern Conference Title next year if they can somehow bolster their frontcourt and bench and Kidd can still play at high level. They will at least be entertaining and put people on the seats, if not anything else.

 

I like watching the "new" old Vince play, but I don't like him and wont root for him.

He dogged it, bad. I can't even think of a player that did something comparable to what he did. Some players shift their focus from winning to putting up stats. I can understand that a little bit, though I don't approve. But to shift your focus from winning to play ****ty enough to force a trade? Disgraceful. There was enough talent to win there if he had played to his potential, but he chose to left his teammates out to dry.

 

i remember when vince didn't wanna give his starting all-star spot to jordan. i'm glad we have the better cousin.

 

No they won't. That's why they're moving to Brooklyn