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Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by hlmbasketball, Nov 13, 2022.

  1. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    I wasn’t talking about any specific players, i was trying to explain to you that you need to look at the percentage and not the total. Jordannn posted the actual numbers for you
     
  2. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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  3. duluth111222

    duluth111222 I.D.I.O.T

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    LOL. Nobody is ONLY complaining about his turnovers. As others have pointed out, Harden actually turned over less. But so what if Harden turned over more? How about assist/to ratio? How about averaging 30pt a game with good efficiency? If KPJ can sniff any of that, I swear I’ll become a KPJ fan.
     
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  4. hlmbasketball

    hlmbasketball Member
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    I dont think scoring 30pts a game is where we nor the coaching staff wants KPJ to be with JG on the team. I really think he needs to be the 2nd or 3rd option. If he can avg 17/5/5, and cut HIS TO avg to 2.5 per game, I'm happy.



    Thanks will do.
     
    #64 hlmbasketball, Nov 14, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2022
    saleem likes this.
  5. duluth111222

    duluth111222 I.D.I.O.T

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    I don't disagree with any of that. But your OP is only comparing the turnovers between KPJ and Harden. And you wonder why so many people are ridiculing in this thread.
     
  6. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    Pffft no fking way is it gonna fly averaging 17.5/5/5 as basically the first option on the team. U dare bring up harden yet pretend that he isn't being used like harden. Harden now is preferring to b the 2nd or 3rd option but the one u mentioned, the Rockets version was the primary option who carried his team as the primary option with elite playmaking abilities


    Kpj is clearly talented enough to score 50 pts, if his playmakin sucks he needs to score more consistently/efficiently to compensate. Harden has stupid turnovers, sure but he is able to win games bc he led the league in scoring and is very good at it.

    It isn't rocket science.
     
  7. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    Ok but it just says nothing when you compare a very young player to a player who is near retirement and declined.
     
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  8. hlmbasketball

    hlmbasketball Member
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    You are correct, because fans were beating KPJ up over his turnovers and I was laying out how we should be use to turnovers. This ain't new!

    His pts came up later in the thread, I just alluded to what KPJ should be shooting for, which is 17/5/5 and 2.5 TO per game.
     
  9. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    Why should we be used to turnovers? Because harden turned the ball over way less then KPJ? What kinda logic is that?
     
  10. Spooner

    Spooner Member

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    Just curious - do you watch the games? I suggest you learn about what usage rate is and why it is important.
     
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  11. tburris872

    tburris872 Member

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    KPJ is still evolving like Silas's motion offense. Harden was a better player, playing under Dunleavy with mostly established/veteran players. Dunleavy's finished product was not good enough for a championship. Stone has given Silas enough rope to hang himself with, by the next year or two he has to show some progress and results unless losing, stagnation, etc becomes so unbearable before then. Silas similarly to Dunleavy and Vangundy favors playing a veteran like Eric Gordon over developmental players; because he does not yet like what he sees enough to trust them in key or pivotal moments of games.
     
  12. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    This thread and the OP are funny
     
  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    LOL if they could trade Westbrook for KPJ straight up Lebron would drive him to the airport.

    He would immediately be the 3rd best player on that team and would give them some of the outside shooting they desperately need.

    Why is Russ doing dumbshit over and over on the court better than KPJ 2 lockerroom "incidents"

    KPJ playing off Lebron would be glorious.
     
  14. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    Now? As in 2022-2023?

    Points : KPJ : 19.2 WB: 16.3

    3PT%: KPJ: 34.2% WB: 34%

    AST: KPJ: 5.8 WB: 7.2

    REB: KPJ: 5.7 WB: 5.5

    TOV: KPJ : 4.1 WB: 3.8

    STL: KPJ : 1.2 WB: 1.2

    BLK: KPJ: 0.3 WB: 0.4

    FT%: KPJ: 77.6% WB: 80.8%

    FG%: KPJ: 40.5% WB: 41.2%

    TS%: KPJ: 52.6% WB: 52.2%

    AST/TO: KPJ: 1.43 WB: 1.91

    That's offense. Here's shooting percentages for the guys that they've guarded:

    Overall Defense:
    KPJ 55.1% ( 8.1 higher than players normal %) WB 40.6% ( 6.5 lower than players normal %)

    3 pointers
    KPJ 37.1% ( 1.7 higher than players normal %). WB 25.6% ( 12.6 lower than players normal %)

    2 pointers
    KPJ 64.7% ( 10.6 higher than players normal %) WB 50.9% ( 2.2 lower than player's normal %)

    Less than 6 feet
    KPJ 70.7% ( 8.0 higher than player's normal %) WB 60.7% ( 1.7 lower than players normal %)

    Less than 10 feet
    KPJ 69.2% ( 10.3 higher than players normal %) WB 54.1% ( 3.7 lower than players normal %)

    Greater than 15 feet
    KPJ 38.2% ( 1.0 higher than players normal %) WB 33.3% ( 5.3 lower than player's normal %)

    So far this year they look pretty much the same offensively, except that Westbrook takes better care of the ball. Defensively, WB has been much better. In every category, KPJ has allowed his man to shoot a higher percentage than normal. WB has held his man under his normal percentage in every categories.
     
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  15. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Once KPJ becomes one of the very most potent offensive weapons of all time and has one of the highest usage rates of all time, we can compare his absolute turnover averages to Harden's... I'm not tryna dump on KPJ, but I feel like this thread is nothing but irrational Harden hate in disguise.
     
  16. duluth111222

    duluth111222 I.D.I.O.T

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    We were also used to GOAT level offensive skills. So what’s the point?
     
  17. theDude

    theDude Contributing Member

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    Another area that I think is quite significant that often gets overlooked is free throw attempts. Harden was masterful at drawing fouls. KPJ and JG are not. Drawing fouls will either significantly change the level of defense your opponent can play on you, or it will force the team to substitute an inferior player into the game. Harden has averaged 8.7 FTA per game for his career. KPJ is at 3.0 (or 12.4 and 5.0 per 100 possessions).
     
  18. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Yet it seems you are
    #WhatAboutism

    Rocket River
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota Fire Silas
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    Gosh almighty, imagine if KPJ got to play with Lebron and Davis......wow - his numbers would be insanely better than Westbrooks....not exactly apples to apples is it.

    DD
     
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  20. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    Lebron and AD keep him from throwing the ball away? Lebron helps him make shots? Lebron and AD are making him play good defense?

    If so, then why doesn't that work for anyone else on the Lakers?

    KPJ has never averaged 7 assists with the ball in his hands most of the game. You think that he'd even average what he does now if he had to take a backseat to Lebron and AD?

    Sorry that I forgot what an advantage it was to play on the dumpster fire that is the Lakers. It's easy to forget how your assist numbers can get inflated when you're passing to the worst shooters in the league.
     
    #80 aelliott, Nov 14, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2022
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