Although I love Stevie, he's one of my favorite players, he's really being a spoiled jerk about this whole Ming thing. If Franchise wants Odom so bad, find some way to trade him for Odom, see how he feels then. No, but seriously come on, suck it up Steve and do whats best for the team.
you are right. I said previously that Steve may be a jerk, but we do not know how he exactly feels. But if he is anti-Ming, then he has no clue what is best for his own team, that is a problem.
Thanks Clutch. When you're the topic starter, I know you're giving us the goodies. Too bad about Francis. He had been practicing so hard on his little "I'm going to be a leader" spiel. So what if he could only be on the floor 35% of the games... or if his turnovers were attrocious, or if his shoulder is gimp, or yadda yadda yadda... The sad thing is, is that it's easy to be the 'leader' with your lazy, stupid, pituitary case, no personality and stoned copycat friends. I imagine it would be much more difficult for him to try out his new leadership lines on a 7'5", 1 x 10^9 fan approved Yao Ming. If this turns into one of those silly highschool ultimatum scenarios, I hope clarity is on the side of the Rockets. Gee.... a humble 7'5" fundamentally sound Center, or a short ass shooting guard parading as an incompetent point. Gee... I don't know what we should possibly do...
As has been said, worse case scenario with Francis, he's traded for another quality PG ala Andre Miller, GP, or possibly even Baron Davis. All players I wouldnt mind having either. Best case scenario, Steve really does have the best interest of the team in mind and realizes a few months into the season the possibilties of Francis/Mobley/Ming anchor. The news about Glen Rice is great, although I had a feeling something like this would come out. He was always working on his shot/game before tipoff at the Labtop this past year. And he's a hard worker and generally has been. If fully healthy, regardless of who we draft @ 15, I'd like to see Rice in the starting lineup.
...oh, I ment to comment on the workouts, too. I'm still mixed on Amare. On the one hand, I saw him play in one of those McDonald's things and I have heard reports that he is still really raw. On the other, he destroy's some highly touted players in workouts. The question is do we really need another developement project when Griffin, in my opinion, still needs a lot of work and already may be becoming lost in the shuffle of offseason activity - is anybody working with him or helping his game??? I know nothing of Nachbar besides what I hear, which is good, and hope the workout this weekend goes well. I think NY would be crazy to pass on Wilcox, if only because they've botched everything up so much, they almost have to go with the conventional analyst and fan pick. Is this guy from Miami whose name keeps popping up recently the real deal or the next Kendrick Perkins?
I hate to dash the dreams of oh so many, but the reality is that there's no viable option out there in which the Rockets benefit from parting with Francis. Consider that: 1. All trades at this point in time hinge on his compliance, so forget "to Cleveland for Miller." 2. New Orleans wouldn't trade Davis for any other point in the league, and the only reason they're even considering letting him go is? Ba dum dum, because they're afraid he isn't going to resign, so trading for Francis makes no sense on their end. 3. To Chicago for Jay Williams? Why would Krause opt for Francis who, although a star, has an impending extension coming up which would hinder his ability to maneuver in the free agent market over the next few years? Williams will get you 15 ppg and 8 apg while on a rookie scale contract. It ain't happening. If you're a Rocket fan, you should be hoping none of these fears materialize, and Francis and company come into accord with each other, because the collective 'we' would lose under any scenario. In the end, to quote Jeff, this is probably "all ado about nothing", and things will work themselves out .....I guess it'll end up like most things of this nature- a springboard to express harbored hate.
someone posted (i'm lazy heh) about the drexler and horry squabble. that's nothing compared to this. thorpe was a key cog in our first championship and horry felt like we needed the inside presence...but we all knew it was status quo after a while. we knighted steve as our 'franchise' player. i never had any negative vibes about steve at all until lately with all these accusations of him acting this way. seriously, he needs us more than we need him if it EVER came down to that situation. we could easily ship him out for andre miller or baron davis or for even jay williams (and extra). and if these things are true about how he really feels, and if this ever leaks out, how would the fans/league look at him then? i know i'm speaking crazy here, but i think this is just because ming is chinese and the perception that many get that asian players cannot play on the same level as.....i'll get PC here....as non-asian players. if this stereotypical view is what's in francis' head....well...just wait til scrimmages comes around when Ming shows him a thing or two about making shots.
Let's see... Stevie gets paid Millions of $$$ to play a kids game, sucks at defense, has a horrible record on assists as a point guard, and now wants to b**** and moan about the possibility of the next SuperStar Center, post-Shaq!!! I know, those of you who are patient, (and possibly wise ), want to wait until Stevie finds out how good Yao really is, and then discover if there is any team chemistry... At this point, I don't think we could get Andre Miller for S.F., and I'm certain that we could not get Baron Davis. Davis is the REAL DEAL!! Baron is at least as good as Jason Kidd!!! Andre Miller will be close to that level of player and still has the right level of humility to fit in with Yao, E.G. and a mature Rice. Then, the only ego's we would have to worry about would be Cat's and MoT. Cato has got to go, and in my opinion, so does Mo. I no longer believe the future of this franchise should be in Steve's hands, and this has less to do with his b****ing, and more to do with his lack of a "total" game, and his style of play. Stevie is the second coming of Marbury. Trade him for Andre Miller and let's see how good this team can really be!!!
Tacoma Park Legend, I admire your post but I will agree to disagree on one thing: the Bulls would be nuts not to trade for Steve Francis (well, potential migraines aside, I guess). Steve Francis alongside Jalen Rose? Not having to constantly carry the load? With Curry, Chandler, and Fizer, plus, probably, Crawford, that's a definite playoff team in the East. Salary cap for free agents? Krause wouldn't need it. His worry would be how to afford the team in a couple years, but an enviable problem. Again, I'm not trying to be in your face, just a polite disagreement. The Bulls would welcome a veteran presence, although Jay Williams would step in and contribute right away, too.
Everybody talking down on Stevie are dumbass idiots, that should leave the team business to the team. Any star would not want Ming. Duncan didn't want parker, and Weber didn't want the Turk. So it's perfectly normal to want proven talent to guarantee the success, as aposed to potential talent that has a question mark beside him. Because no matter how good anybody thinks Ming will be it's still to be seen. Thanks Clutch you are the man!!!
thanks for the info clutch, im sorry man but whats up with all these francis haters? i guess i might not be as mad at him cus i dont want Ming either but why are we throwing all our chips in for this guy? he wont help us anytime soon and we dont know if he will in the future. why not trade for odom and the 8 and/or 12? we could prolly pick up any two of the following big guys with those pick:amare, hilario, or borchardt and we know what we're gettin with odom. those three guys may not have as much potential or height as yao but more than likely atleast one of them will become a good player in the league. i know odom's had a drug problem, but many people have smoked weed once or twice. im sure cat and stevie can keep him staight. i jus dont understand why would we would draft this guy if we know are best player may leave the team because of it. i jus hope rudy and cd know what theyre doing cus if not theyll prolly be fired, francis will leave, and we'll prolly loose a lot of rockets fans.
You may be right ROXTXIA (I'd do it if I were Chicago), but you have to take into account that Steve Francis, no matter how petulant, childish, and/or hidebound you may believe him to be, does not have the gall to walk in on his coach of 3 years, who represents the organization as much as anyone, and demand a trade because of an alleged disdain for a player he's never stepped on the court with. You've got to have an incredible amount of contempt for him to consider it a plausible scenario. He respects the man too much. Let's be logical here; he won't get a chance to pass judgement on Yao Ming before he can sign his extension, so does he want to endure the scrutiny from the press that would come with bypassing resigning at the time for no explainable reason, after publicly stating he'd resign if offered the max? I don't see it. As long as his disagreement with the going-ons of the franchise remain private, I'm inclined to believe that the Rockets have more patience and foresight than to trade a player of his talent because of "confirmed hearsay"...lol, as oxymoronic as that sounds, I think you get the point.
are we 'hating' steve or are we hating his attitude?......make sure you can separate the two. true or not true, we all know steve always try to get what he wants (i.e. vancouver). it's just that if he really wants to be 'the man' and he really wants to lead this team, he needs to have a leader's attitude. duncan not wanting parker and webber not wanting turkoglu...i don't know about these situations so you might have to help me w/ some links....that's not as big as this situation. those were 2nd round players. this is the FIRST PICK. parker and hedo were just crapshots ...50/50 on how well they would do. but this is ming and many have applauded his game play. granted, he's sort of a project but if he can post half of the stats in his 2001-2002 in the CBA (32 pts and like 15 rebs on 75% shooting...like 16 pts and 8 rebs on like 50% shooting) in his first season then it was worth the trouble. everyone said 'if you miss, miss big'. and i agree. talent is can't be really measured but height can. and to answer your question on why we would draft this guy if we somehow knew francis would leave...b/c he's just that good. rudy and cd did their homework and quite frankly i bet if you ask them they would tell you that ming will be a better than francis. that last sentence bothers me. so what if francis leaves? we got over when dream left.
I understand the frustration, but I think everyone needs to slow down. So what if Francis is pissed? He's not making public comments and hasn't indicated anything contrary to his earlier statements about wanting to sign a longterm deal. He may have liked the idea of playing with Odom but he will get over it once this team begins to pull together and Ming is contributing. I think some people forget that Akeem could be a real pain in the #$@ when he was a young player too. Francis may need to do some maturing, but until he proves otherwise, there is no reason to believe he won't get over his pouting and do what is in the best interest of the team.
i didnt necesarily mean u hated him in general i jus meant u were dissin him. im pretty sure steve prolly isnt the only one on the team that doesnt want ming. cat said it would be over with him, stevie, and odom running the court on the best damn sports show ever so theres one more player. sometimes a leader needs to stick up for what he believes in, thats what makes lots of peeps leaders. i understand why u think he should go along with rudy and all but he can have his opinion, and unless it gets to the point where francis says draft ming and im outta here then im not gonna call him slefish. if ming averages 16pts, 8rbs, on 50% shooting i will be shocked. im pretty sure it will take atleast a year before hes hittin those stats. ming is too far away from being a star in this league for me to let francis go and im suprised so many peeps would let the franchise walk. dream was completely different his career was winding down. francis hasnt even reached the peak of his career.
i agree w/ most of your post. don't get me wrong at all, i dig the Franchise. he was the breathe of fresh air that convinced myself that 'yea this guy will get us back to the finals' and he could still do so. he's a great player. but the primadonna attitude is agitating me. MAYBE i'm overkilling/overblowing this who knows? but leaders don't let even the slightest rumor leak out that he dislike a player and what not. that's within the team kind of business. it works both ways. i'm hoping that steve will prove me wrong and help ming and the rockets dominate. but if i'm right..well...there are other options. as for ming hitting those stats, i'm convinced that he can find his rhythm by season's end. asking for 16 points and 8 rebounds isn't that farfetched. a night of playing 40 mins on 5-11 shooting and 6/6 from the ft line isn't that much to ask for. and thanks for making this an intellectual argument.
If the Francis concern goes public & blows up, here's a possible trade idea that I posted in another thread. However, it won't happen, because Rudy & CD will sit down with Francis & explain their reasons for taking Ming. So, everyone needs to just chill out. Then again, the negotiations for Ming could fall apart & we'd trade the pick for the best available package anyway. Houston sends Francis to Chicago. Houston sends KT to Cleveland. Chicago sends Crawford/#2 pick to Cleveland. Chicago sends Fizer to Houston. Cleveland sends Miller to Houston. Cleveland sends Davis/#6 pick to Chicago. Houston swaps PF's with similar skills, but adds some size with Fizer & gets a pure PG in Miller. They also keep the #1 pick to draft Ming with. Chicago gets an Allstar PG in Francis & a sweet shooting SF in Davis, while dropping down to the #6 pick. At #6, they should be able to pick up an impact player. Cleveland gets out from under the looming max contract of Miller & picks up a promising young 6'5" PG in Crawford, a hustling & very effective PF in KT, & with the #2 pick will be guaranteed of drafting JW.
I say trade Francis plus whomever, as long as it doesn't include the #1 or Griffin, to Minnesota for Garnett, draft Juan Dixon, and start winning championships. But thats just me.
