Not giving up on Terrence Jones

IMO that's implied but that's just me.

There is another thread that just popped up that just said "We should go get Dirk".... I see statements like that and I just think to myself sarcastically "Wow... what an interesting new thought".

When me and my wife got our tax return back I didn't run in the door and say "We should go buy a Yacht". Its probably more realistic to discuss the siding on the house that is rotting away or the tires on my truck that need to be replaced.

There is nothing wrong with dreaming but having a little perspective goes a long way. You make really great points for the most part when you explain your thoughts, but in this case there needs to be a little more perspective on how to solve the TJones/DMo vs. All-Star PF case.

 

McDermott is a better defender than people give him credit for. His basketball iq is off the charts, he's got a great side base and he's very strong. He'll be a better, smarter defender from day 1 than either Jones or DMo.

Jones will not garner the #10 pick in this draft. Jones will not garner a first round pick in this draft. Jones' trade value right now is a future second rounder or possibly a top 20 protected first round pick. Jones may physically resemble Otis Thorpe (he's not nearly as big). But his defense no more resembles Otis Thorpe than my golf game resembles Tiger Woods'.

Yeah, McDermott plus DMo plus 2 future first round picks unprotected may be enough to get Love.

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If Hinkie wants to keep JRich....more power to him....that would be fine with us.

So we'll throw in #25 and get it done. If you can flip McDermott, DMo #25, and 2 future first round unprotected picks for Love....git 'er done.

 

Never said Jones was anything close to Otis Thorpe on defense. I said compared to what I've seen to McDermott. Big difference there bud. Anyways, I have a much more conservative view in what I see from Doug McDermott. He's a draft prospect who hasn't even gone through the combine and Summer League yet so there is no point in arguing what kind of player he's going to be 4 years down the road.

My point with "Morey might not even take McDermott" is just to note that he's got to watch what other GM's are viewing out there as the highest upside guys to take. Case in point, if Morey was looking to trade the #14 pick a few years ago for a star player, he might have taken Larry Sanders over Patrick Patterson.

Last year, I do wonder how intrigued Morey really was with Jeremy Lamb or if he was thinking that he was going to flip him all along at some point, and thought he'd have more trade value... who knows.

With the Rockets going into the draft its going to be interesting, because I could very well see them doing a Spurs/Leonard type of move. McDermott would be an awesome prospect to get in that type of scenario. However you kind of have to look at what Morey's end goal would be if he got all the way down to the top 10.

The pick that I'm really eye balling is the 2nd first rounder Phoenix has. Flipping Asik & their later 1st rounder to Phoenix for that pick has crossed my mind a time or two. There could be a real nice player (possibly even McDermott) that might slip a little bit.

I know it sounds like a broken record but.... I would be shocked if Morey wasn't extremely busy on draft night trying to get a deal done somehow some way.

 

There's miles of difference between Jones and Otis Thorpe defensively. McDermott may actually be a better defender than Jones is right now simply because he has bball iq running out his ears and he has a much wider, stronger base.

 

Uhhh... I never said that dude.

This is exactly why you piss people off. There is nothing we are disagreeing on, and you find a way to disagree with it.

The only thing you are doing here is claiming something that you cannot prove, or be disproved about.

You say McDermott is better than Jones..... ok... the guy hasn't even been to through the draft combine yet, and was NOT a good defender at the college level.... The fact that he has a large base and high BBIQ means diddly right now. Just stop. I LIKE MCDERMOTT. Just Stop. Nobody is arguing with you. I'm actually trying to be civil, and agree.

 

There's no argument to be made dude. Just stating my thoughts and keeping it real about Jones since there are lots of delusions and grand illusions about him. Glad you like McDermott. But that's not why I'm posting.

I'm posting because the OP made the statement that TJ will be the 3rd best player on this roster next year. If that's the case we're in a world of trouble.

Like I said...I think it's funny that JOFs come out in droves and refuse to be realistic about the state of his game, career, and value to this team. We just got spanked by Portland. He couldn't handle either LaMarcus or Lopez. He's not going to magically grow to 6'10". And the odds that he comes back next season firing away and hitting a respectable 37-38% from the 3-point line are very, very small.

McDermott is just one player that we could possibly acquire that would make a big difference to our team. There are many other possibilities as well. I simply made the case that if we acquired McDermott and kept him we'd be better off with him at the 4 than Jones or DMo. Because he can shoot from anywhere on the floor at a highly efficient rate, which opens up the floor immensely for Dwight and James and because he has very high bball iq and will be an ok defender in the NBA simply because of that irregardless of his lack of athleticism.

 

Because of the mountains of posts dedicated to how great he was this year.

Posters being unrealistic about the Jones and the state of his game started JOFs.

No, you don't have to look back. You need to look forward and see what this team needs at the 4-spot. The past doesn't make a difference. It's all about Harden and Howard now. The sooner we realize that the better off we'll be. Guys that keep looking back at Scola and Thorpe.....they oughta look back at Robert Horry. That's what we need at the 4.

Duh.............

Now and moving forward if TJ doesn't learn how to shoot a basketball at better than 30% he's gonna have a difficult time even securing a new contract. Best available moving forward???? Are you predicting that he will become a better than average shooter over the summer???? Because at a bare minimum that's what we need....moving forward.

 

No. Hell no. McDermott is on Adam Morrison's level of terrible defense. Jones erases a ton of shots, while Doug E Doug is literally rooted to the ground. Doug can barely guard kids playing in the Church-ball rec league and will get tortured in the NBA. Any GM that draft's this kid in the first round will be a joke. It's a Tim Tebow pick. His offense and motor are nice, but he's a less athletic and shorter version of Kyle Korver at best.

 

He is "too legit to quit!" He was incredibly impressive at times this year. Unfortunately, he doesn't match up against the elite PF's in league that you see in the playoffs. Will he ever? Will he grow bigger? Technique can be learned but size can't. Tough one. Try him out at PG; he will never make a shot, but he will "cross over" some folks.

 

So what do you think is being unrealistic about him?

 

LMA to TJ

 

apparently nuanced positions can't be had. jones is either bad or good. no middle ground.

 

No, he's not. McDermott is superior to Morrison on both ends of the court.


Note: I'm not saying McDermott is a great defender. He won't be a great defender at the next level. He will be a smart defender, kinda like ..... Larry Bird. Not capable of holding down the ultra athletic high-flyers but at the same time way better than them on the offensive end and causing all kinds of mismatches.

But I am saying McDermott is just as good a defender as TJones is. You can sit there and stare at Jones blocking a shot or two here and there and "ewwww" and "ahhhhh" at how athletic he is. But it doesn't make up for the dumb-dumbs when it comes to basketball iq and playing team defense. Jones is NOT, I repeat NOT, even an average NBA defender. He is a poor defender.

 

of course you dont give up on him. he's not a seasoned vet. if you cant find anything better at pf, keep him. he's only gonna get better. if we weren't trying to contend i'd wanna keep him and dmo. too much potential between the two

 

1. That he is going to be the 3rd best player on this team next year.

2. That his PER proves he was a great player for us this year.

3. That he can be effective defensively or offensively against teams that essentially play Twin Towers. Teams like Portland, Memphis, the Spurs (Duncan/Splitter), Clippers, etc. Basically all the playoff teams. This was proven to be unrealistic after posters kept arguing that he would do fine against those guys.

4. That he is a good defender (he isn't) and that what he lacks in shooting he makes up for with his stellar D.

5. That he is a great fit next to Dwight.

6. That he is a better power forward than Omer Asik. (He aint. He's not even as good a power forward as James Harden.)

7. That he would shoot well throughout the season after shooting very well the first month of the season. (Starting from Dec. 1 to the end of the season he was atrocious shooting the basketball.)

8. That he can play SF. (He can't defend SFs nor can he score efficiently as a SF.)

9. That we could win a championship with him starting for us this year.

10. That he earned his starting role this year. (He didn't. It was handed to him.)

11. That he will become a star player. (The odds of this happening after any player has been in the league for 2 seasons is slightly above zero.)

12. That he doesn't destroy the spacing of our offense but Asik does. (He does.)

13. That defenses will come out and guard Jones outside because he's a better offensive player and a greater threat offensively than Asik. (He wasn't.)

14. That he was a better fit with our starting unit than anybody else we had. (He wasn't.)






I think that's enough for now.

 

just because he can get overhyped doesn't excuse the opposite perception of him.

 

His offense is great. He has good post moves and has a great shot. His defense is below average. If he spends the off season just on his defense, he could be a top ten power forward in the NBA.

 

Here is the realistic evaluation of Jones:

Strengths:
1. Great handle for a PF. Can go end to end and finish. Great change of direction. If he gets the ball in the open court he can't be stopped by bigs. Has to have smalls attack his dribble to stop him.

2. He can run and fill the lanes on the break and finish. He's a very fast runner for a big man.

3. He has exhibited some creativity with his long arms finishing around the basket. Has a number of scoops and swoops that are effective in transition when he is being contested at the rim.

4. He does have some post-up moves in the low blocks that are effective against smaller defenders (however often that is) when he has space to operate in.

5. He does have enough athleticism to help defend at the rim from the blind side.



Weaknesses:

1. He cannot shoot a basketball. His jump shot mechanics are terrible. He has an extremely slow release. It takes him forever to unwind and uncork from his convoluted footward and arm work. He has no confidence in his jump shot and does not want to shoot it. Won't shoot wide open jump shots because of his justified lack of confidence.

1b. He's a piss-poor free throw shooter as well.

2. He has low basketball iq. Is always out of position defensively (see final play of the season) and cannot make smart defensive decisions when in pick-and-roll and pick-and-pop coverage.

3. He is simply too small (despite being 250 lbs and very athletic) to defend power forwards that post up and have face-up games.

4. He can't close out on face-up shooters without getting blown by.

5. He can't hold position on the box-out and control the defensive boards.

6. When he does get the rebound he doesn't look for the quick outlet pass, instead he holds the ball and looks for an opportunity to dribble it up. While that leads to several spectacular length-of-the-court plays during the season, it actually costs the team many fast break opportunities throughout the course of a season of possessions because for every end-to-end spectacular play he makes he winds up walking it up into half-court sets ten times.

7. He cannot spread the floor due to his poor shooting. Teams play off him and dare him to drive into traffic or take a 30% set shot that some of us deem a jumper.

8. He hasn't improved his shooting in 4 seasons now, 2 at Kentucky and 2 in the NBA. He's had 3 off seasons to work on his jump shot since he got to UK and hasn't done it. He's the same shooter he was when he graduated high school and went to UK. Maybe worse.

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Now.....that is keeping it real folks. This is Terrence Jones.


Now....ask yourself.....what does this team need from it's power forward?

 

Holy ****. You reached like hell on most of these.