I think the question is Will he be Rothlesberger? Palmer? When it is all said and Done . .. where do you see Carr Alot of folx compare him to Jake Plumber Rocket River
yea it helps to have chad johnson, tj houndsmazdah, chris henry, rudi johnson, levi jones, eric steinbach, and willie anderson as great talent around carson palmer unlike carr. carr has a. johnson and DD as his great talents with no o-line or a good 2nd wr. palmer is like aikman-like type of QB. like i said before, carr needs some talent and a fair chance.
no I compared the 04 texans to the 04 colts, two teams, same divisions, same years. its ridiculous to go time hopping. the numbers don't have to be qualified, only to strengthen your argument, the texans had a higher ranked running game in 04. where did I back down, I still stand by the claim that johnson is a top five receiver, I addressed the issue in a post earlier, numbers, athletic ability, all of the above. congratulations you found one qb who is a equally as bad. what facts have I avoided, you're the one who needs to comapre two teams in two time periods. I've been pretty straight forward on the facts. actually i have, peyton's team was bad enough to get a coach fired. both guys were drafted to teams who previously had the worst record in the league. as far as the bengals receivers and colts receivers, again chicken and egg argument. they have good qbs, which we've already agreed to. I have no idea how good the texans' receivers are outside of johnson, they haven't had a good qb.
That's exactly right--the o-line has nothing at all to do with it. Way to go round and round for five pages and still miss the point.
jeez, wheres gaffney, armstrong, m. rivers, billy miller, and bradford now. i think one or two of them at the most are still in the league.
Excellent point! No one's brought up the ridiculous number of dropped passes the last two seasons. Every time I watched the Texans I was disgusted with the drops. I forgot which one last year, it was like the guy got open so often and dropped the ball (it seemed) every time Carr hit him!! It got to where the mention of that guy's name made me want to blow chunks.
first of all calm down, I'm at work responding to three different posters, excuse if I don't touch on every minute point. secondly I know about manning's ability to read the d that's the whole point. you can't just ignore that the offensive line was good for davis and bad for carr blaming it on system. and I'm sorry I don't have more examples of peyton checking off at the line when he sees the blitz coming. actually, houshmanzadeh's improved play coincideds with palmer starting. as far as the offensive line is concerned. Willie anderson is a pro bowler, but he was in cincy since 96 so I don't know if he got that much better or his qb play did. fair point on marvin lewis
Au contraire; pass-blocking and run-blocking are two wildly different animals. Everyone I've read over the last few years has said the Texans' line was decent at run-blocking and atrocious at pass-blocking. There are even teams who bring in different personnel to the o-line for passing downs! You're trying to blow this off as a non-factor (at least it seems that way), when it is almost *the* factor.
the reason I blow it off is because this is the only team in the league I here this excuse from. are they different, sure, but really I haven't seen a team that has such a striking difference and that's why its hard for me to say it is *the* factor.
yes, i know. something no one else was doing. we were comparing their rookie years. manning's was in 1998; carr's was in 2002. neither was a rookie in 2004; no one knows why you brought it up, but since you did, and then were universally wrong in the various claims you made about it, we decided to call you on it. but no one is talking about 2004 since neither was a rookie. yes, they do. 2004 team rushing totals: indy: 1,852; hou: 1,882. a difference of 30 yards. context item #1: EJ didn't play in the final game of the year since the colts were 12-3 at the time (he actually totaled a single carry for -2 yards). context item #2: carr outrushed manning that year by 263 yards. so among running backs, the colts' total surpassed houston's and that was with james taking an entire game off. but sure, go ahead and pretend they were equal, or that houston's rushing attack was better. everyone would agree. it's pretty firm ground. everyone is entitled to their opinion. yours, of course, is wrong. he certainly has the potential, but his hands are suspect, he's easily neutralized, and he fails to consistently get space in his routes. but sure, blame carr. he was terrible. so how did anquan bolden and larry fitzgerald each catch 100+ balls with the likes of warner and mcnown throwing to them? what about mason? moss? coles? stallworth? moulds? driver? you'd trade carr for boller? collins? testaverde? brooks? losman/holcombe? favre? torry holt had 10 catches, 130 yards and a TD against the texans last year with a third string QB - how do explain that? (careful - this one IS a trap.) actually, i just found a bunch (see above) and they all had more productive WRs than andre johnson, proving that great WRs - even top 5 WRs - find ways to get open and impact games even with crappy QBs. i've lost track how many times i've posted this, but we're comparing their rookie years. maybe if i use caps and bold it...: WE'RE COMPARING THEIR ROOKIE YEARS. NO ONE CARES ABOUT 2004. BUT WE'RE INDULGING YOUR APPARENT FASCINATION WITH IT BECAUSE IT'S PROVIDING US WITH ADDITIONAL FODDER TO MAKE YOU LOOK BAD. OTHERWISE, IT'S IRRELEVANT BECAUSE ONLY A r****d WOULD DARE COMPARE THE 2004 COLTS TO THE 2004 TEXANS AS A MEANS TO DUMP ON DAVID CARR. dammit; i've wasted my entire day. i should have just sat back and waited for you to post the singule dumbest thing ever. so, pgabriel, tell me: what was the texans' record in 2001 that earned them that first pick in 2002, you mensa member?
apologies; i just reread this - you meant the colts and bengals - i read that wrong. my bad; i apologize for this paticular remark (see how easy it is to admit you're wrong?) the difference, however, remains that both teams had far greater pieces already in place than the texans did in 2002. in fact, it's not even remotely open for debate.
2004 was actually carr's third year, I just want to see some improvement is that bad? but you made the claim that the indy rushing attack was oh so greater than houston's. that was a false claim in 04, when peyton had his best year. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. you made the claim about indy's rushing attack, I disproved it. it wasn't that much better, in fact in one year it wasn't better at all. how are you comparing rookie year when you were slobbering all over james as a running back. he didn't play with peyton as a rookie. that was the whole point. the only point I made about peyton's rookie year was that he played with marshall faulk. torry holt had a great game against the texans because the texans were last in defense. so I don't know how that's a trap
Someone else already made my point about this being different. Actually, the Texans front line is quite pathetic the past few years in comparison in the amount of time a QB gets per play. I've never seen a line collapse so often so quick. It's different because if players get through the line, it doesn't always affect the running game as it's just a blur past them. Sometimes, it might even help the running game to have people break through as you run past them early because the defense will have less reaction time to make the tackle, allowing DD to make it to the secondary more times than not. The other thing, is that the past offensive lines in previous years are good at making a whole to run on, but that doesn't help blocking schemes. I'll agree with you on that one, on TJ's play. I'll even go as far as to say how much Cincin struggled with Carson injured in the playoff's opening play. As of now, I do rank Palmer ahead of Carr by a margin, but I just have to believe that it's mostly psychological as Carr's always watching his back as an instinct. I don't believe that Carr's trying to be a baby and save his own behind; I just believe that he's tired of fumbling the ball away half the time due to the ridiculous lack of pass protection that he receives day in and day out. I think it begin to creep into him when he got his shoulder injured. It's easy to think about an injury that sidelined you once it happened and things aren't changing. Thank you. I agree with how Peyton Manning and Carson are doing great and they deserved it. I just also believe that they wouldn't have fared that much better than Carr if they start their career with the protection and help that Carr did when they started. I'm not saying that might not be better, but I am going to feel that Carr wasn't given a fair chance to live up to his potential as a #1 pick.
Carr played very well considering that we had no running attack. The running back position seems like our biggest hole right now. We need someone to help out Carr or we will be no better than 4-12 and it WONT be because of David Carr.
i would like to add jermaine lewis, stacey mack, james allen, tony hollings, and jonathan wells thank you very much.
and seth wand, marcus spears, victor riley, todd washington, milford brown, todd wade, and ryan young.
well, technically, the first half of the 2004 season was, far and away, his best stretch. he's been regressing ever since. no; i never did. here's the timeline: i mentioned, among other things, manning had the pleasure of playing with faulk his rookie year, one of many advantages that carr did not enjoy. you first disputed this, retracted your despute and then tried to somehow twist the fact that they then traded faulk into a bad thing even though, as was pointed out, they essentially traded faulk for james, far from a downgrade, if one at all. which then led to you trying to somehow equate dd and the texans' rushing attack to ej and the colts' attack. there is no comparison. there's not a single person in the league, who pays attention to the league or who has an IQ above -15 that would trade james for davis straight up. no one. i can't be more clear about this. so yes, because james sat out a game and carr's an effective scrambler, the totals are similiar. they are not, however, even remotely similiar when comparing the guys who make those rushing attacks go. was that a statement? and i wasn't. you took us down the james trail; not me. see above timeline or feel free to scroll back thru the thread. uhmmmmmmmm..... no, that was my point. the whole "which organization did a better job grooming their rookie qb..." and that led to you posting this gem: "trading marshall can be looked back as a mistake, seeing as how he won a superbowl and was a league mvp in the aftermath. trading mvps is good for qbs, thanks but I'm gonna disagree on that point." which led to my, (paraphrasing) yeah, trading faulk for james was a real steep drop-off, which led you to take the (paraphrasing, slightly) "i'm now in way over my head so i'll distract them by throwing out random stats from 2004" route. wait a second... didn't you say carr's played with way too many to count good players in his tenure? yes, you did: "carr has actually had some good players around him" - before providing exactly two. but isn't defense a part of the game? if he's playing with a defense that's giving up a lot of points, failing to even remotely help with field position and keeping him and the offense off the field for long stretches, doesn't that put a qb - any qb - in a difficult position to succeed? or is it all about offensive playmakers? btw, i may or may not start rehashing pertinent items i've posted that you've ignored; let's see how it works out - here's the first entry:
