what's your point? mine was that, unlike the texans, the colts have actually built a team around their franchise QB. he came into a better situation; they've consistently improved the roster, specifically the offense; they've stabilized the coaching staff around him and put him in a position to succeed from day one. nothing you said added or detracted from that, therefore making it superfluous.
It's not ALL David Carr's fault. BUT ... Why can't David Carr feel the pressure coming? Why can't David Carr create space (like maybe running backwards/away from the pressure) when the heat is on? Why can't David Carr throw the ball away instead of falling down for a 10 yard loss? Yeah, he needs better protection. But how many years will it take him to figure out he's simply gonna have to scramble? He has no pocket. Improvise. I was watching MNF. The Oakland Raiders. Yup, they're as bad as we are. They should have two leagues in the NFL. Real teams. And sorry excuse for NFL teams. Teams like us and the Raiders ... not professional; not fun to watch at all.
why, in h-e-double hockey sticks would you advocate anyone on a football field running backwards? because you prefer 20-yard losses to 10-yard losses? he doesn't fall down; he usually runs out of bounds. but, yeah - it's been frustrating. i don't think he's savvy; or, he's had the savvy beaten out of him. but the QB i watched sunday looked better than he has in a long, long time. savvier, that's for sure. he may yet get there... maybe. and the texans are a much better team than the raiders.
Look at Peyton Manning as an excellent reason you'd want to run backwards/back track. That touchdown pass to the tight end. Pressure's coming. So Peyton buys some time by running BACKWARDS, away from the pressure. Running back like he did created space. And gave his guy time to get open. If that was David Carr, he would have missed the pressure coming until the guy was right on him, and then fallen down for a 6 yard loss.
my point was that marshall faulk had no bearing on peyton's career. actually, I did detract from your points, peyton went through a head coach, he performed well while that coach didn't. so I don't see how you can say from day one they put a staff around him when the first staff was fired, for incompetence btw. trading marshall can be looked back as a mistake, seeing as how he won a superbowl and was a league mvp in the aftermath. trading mvps is good for qbs, thanks but I'm gonna disagree on that point. carr has actually had some good players around him, even though guys try to discredit dd, he put up good numbers, andre johnson is a top five receiver, so the drafts haven't been all bad.
OK, does anyone else think it's a little unfair to compare ANY quarterback to Peyton Manning??? Yes, he sucks in the playoffs, but year in year out he's the best QB in the NFL and one of the best in it's history. As far as his scrambling ability, I was at the game and saw several instances of him scrambling for first downs. He had 4 scrambles for 25 yards including 1 for 16 yards. Those sacks in the 2nd half were because of blown assignments, not the pocket breaking down. There's a big difference. You don't have time to do anything but DUCK when someone totally misses an assignment, especially a RB since he's usually the last blocking option. You have to have a POCKET in order to have POCKET PRESENCE.
is it really, peyton isn't joe montana or john elway, he has a ways to go. and no one is comparing the numbers, that would be unfair as you can't expect anyone to put up the numbers. but actual development he's the standard for number one pick franchise qbs in the last ten years. and there actually has been a qb to live up to his standards so its not completely unfair, carson palmer. but i know palmer went to that great organization, the bengals.
No, he's the gold standard. The cream of the crop. And since you bring up Carson Palmer, let's look at his O-line, shall we?
this is what I hate about these debates, I name a qb who developed well, you say look at his line, when the truth is neither one of us knows anything about cinny's line. since when does cincy have a great line?
marshall faulk... james allen. james allen... marshall faulk (while i pantomime weighing each back in my hands) - you're right; i can see virtually no difference between the two. i doubt peyton’s job as a rookie was made even an ounce easier by having a pro bowl RB in his backfield. well, because, as stated in my post, he's had the same OC since his first day in the league. i was off on the QB coach, however - he's only been with him five years. the rest of the staff is irrelevant; he's had stability around his side of the ball and specifically with the coach must responsible for his success. you're right; the drop from faulk to james (who have played in the same number of pro bowls since 1999) was steep. not sure how they dug themselves out of that hole. “just when i thought you couldn't get any dumber, you go and do something like this... and totally redeem yourself!” last year, four offensive teammates accompanied manning to hawaii – four. carr's had one teammate go to hawaii once. in four years. but yeah, i mean, he's had good players. among the “good players”: stacey mack, james allen, jonathan wells, moran norris, jabar gaffney, jabari holloway, billy miller, demingo graham, greg randall, seth wand, todd washington, todd wade, victor riley, and ryan young - all starters for at least 8 games within the past 4 years; all are currently out of the league. but yeah, i mean, he's had good players. the offense is starting 6 players this year who weren't on the team last year - that's more than half. but yeah, i mean, he's had good players. they’ve earned a top 10 pick in 4 of their 6 drafts. but yeah, i mean, he's had good players. sure, let's compare DD to marshall faulk and edgerrin james; should be fun. you start... where? on the texans? yes. among the NFL? not even close. the AFC? no way. he’s not even the best WR in his own division. in fact, production-wise, you could argue he's not even the best WR on his own team. they made 39 picks in their first four years... and you listed two of them and then proclaimed their drafts "haven't been all bad." makes sense. actually, it doesn’t. i was being an ass. of those 39 picks, only 14 are still on the roster. on an expansion team. and five of those 14 were 1st round picks, which are a little harder to screw-up. so in rounds 2-7, the texans found 9 players and exactly two starters in their first four years and they were given extra picks as part of the expansion process. but yeah, i mean, he's had good players. in terms of what? SBs? yes. stats? no. peyton manning will be the greatest qb ever, statictically, when all is said and done. he's already top 10. if he mixes in a SB win or 2, there will be no doubt. no, he's not. he started - started - his first game with three current or future all-pros on offense. why would you compare an expansion qb to that? not really. why? again - they weren't an expansion team. they had corey dillon, rudi johnson and chad johnson all starting (or playing significant minutes) in 2003 plus his tackles (anderson, a pro bowler, and jones, a top 10 pick) were already in place before he ever took a single snap. tremendous advantage.
i think what you really hate is that you keep clicking send w/o giving your posts a second thought... willie anderson and levi jones are their starting tackles and have been since 2002. jones was a top 10 pick that year. i knew that w/o looking anything up. surfing the web for a grand total of roughly 35 seconds, i further discovered that anderson was first round pick in '96 and has been to three pro bowls. also, the bengals have had a 1,300+-yard rusher every year since 2000 expect 2003 when dillon/johnson combined for 1,500. also, more in-depth research - they've given up 31.5 sacks/yr since 2002. for comparison's sake, the broncos, the gold standard among OLs, have given up 27.3/yr. the texans have given up 57.3/yr.
in 03 both rushing offenses were ranked mediocre, in 04 houston's was actually higher. david carr has to be the only qb in nfl history who's apologist actually claim his good rushing doesn't help him you're right a head coach is irrelevant to a qb's success. see earlier, indy actually hasn't been superior to houston in rushing, despite the talent. I don't know why you must continue being an ass. so what's the excuse for having a good rushing game and not passing. chicken and egg argument. carr holds on to the ball too long/ he doesn't have enough time to pass. but the rushing game is comparable to indy's. simple name five better receivers. if they were so great why were they picking number one?
I would expect you to know that, you have a football web site. yet you are arguing with guys who just follow it as a hobby. so what, they started for since 02, how long has steve mckinney started, is he great. now you're bragging about your football knowledge, that's great. yet it took you forever to respond to my last post. what took so long then oh great master of all football rosters. you win champ.
This really shouldnt even be an argument at this point. Do I think Andre has the potential to be top 5? Hell yes. Is he right now? Nope. Chad Johnson Terrell Owens Steve Smith Larry Fitzgerald Torry Holt Marvin Harrison Anquan Boldin Hines Ward (I think one of the top 3 all around receivers) Randy Moss If you want to throw statistics into the mix... Santana Moss Reggie Wayne Chris Chambers Javon Walker Darrell Jackson The lists can go on and on... Yeah, potentially, Andre Johnson has the tools to be one of the very best in the game...but to say that he is top 5 right now is pushing it. I think this is the year in which he will push himself to the upper echelon of the league...but as of now...he's not top 10.
However, the guy just does nothing to inspire his teamates, he is one of the worst leaders I have ever seen at the QB position. how do you know that? one of the o-linemen was on the radio this morning (cant remember which) and he said that Carr was a good leader in that game and he was controlling the huddle like a qb should
It's hard to judge how good receivers are relative to each other given that their performance is contingent on everybody else doing their job right, more so than probably any other offensive player.
really, shouldn't be an argument, read this article from his second season. link "The quality of Johnson's performance through his first 29 games is enough to make even casual observers take notice. He has more catches during that span — 137 to Jerry's Rice's 123 — than any of the league's top five receivers of all time. (Related item: Johnson vs. NFL greats) " if there's an offensive player on this team who's been hampered by his teamates, its johnson
