Not a complaint but an observation: Harden is still playing analytic ball aka MoreyBall

Please elaborate for the class...

 

Melo had a negative wins above replacement value last year.

Meaning a replacement level player would be expected to do better than he did.

Melo had career lows in win shares per 48, offensive box +/- , defensive box +/-, overall box +/-, value over replacement.

2nd lowest player efficiency rating if his career.

Melo was trash. Scoring 15 points on game on 15 shots is literally nothing and is detrimental when everything else in your game is even worse.

He has also NEVER been a good mid range shooter. Neither has Westbrook or Ariza. We can easily look up their field goal percentages on those shots. You can’t just say they were good when we can look it up and see that the factual evidence was that they were awful mid range shooters.

 

Here we go, one of these stat nerds that never played basketball a day in his life. Melo came off the bench with a horrible Blazers second unit. Yes, you should absolutely use numbers in any evaluation (I use numbers for a living) but numbers don't tell the entire story. 6 shot makes on 14 shot attempts is about 43%. Nothing to write home about but it's solid production off the bench at 15 points a game for someone only making 2.1 million per year. Melo has never been a great shooter, he is a volume shooter, like Kobe, Iverson, so many others. But if Melo is so trash as you put it and shooting only 43%, what does that say about Harden shooting only 44% last season?

 

Because using FG% to evaluate a player is for brain dead, dinosaurs of years passed.

Notice how in my explanation of how bad Melo was I didn’t mention his field goal percentage. It’s not relevant. Points scored versus field goal attempts and free throw attempts is relevant.

Clint Capela is the Houston Rockets all time leader in field goal percentage. Is he better than Hakeem? Obviously ****ing not.

Yes I should use numbers in evaluation? lol thanks for the advice I suggest you use it yourself.

You said that Melo, Ariza and Westbrook are good mid range shooters and that is akin to me saying Shaq was the best free throw shooter ever. We know that they are all false because we can look up the numbers. You can’t just say **** that isn’t true when we can easily fact check bullshit these days.

I worry about your use of numbers in your profession if as an NBA fan you have latched on to FG% as a means of making an argument.

 

Most teams are reducing their midrange shots and trying to get more at the rim, or from 3. Analytics has won the NBA over. Sure, the Rockets were an extreme example of it the last few years, but every team is looking at stretch 5s these days.

The TMAC and LMA fans who love watching players brick 15-20 footers all night are disappointed, but c'est la vie.



*LMA and tmax are just 2 guys who I thought of as high volume long 2 takers who shoot quite well from mid range - both shot just over 40% from 16 feet out to the 3 line on their career. That's 80-85 points per 100 possessions (assuming no turnovers) - good for worst offence in the league every single season. Yuck!*

 

Melo mid range stats last year 3-10 feet: .476 10-16 feet: .419 16-3P: .380
Kawhi mid range stats last year 3-10 feet: .452 10-16 feet: .445 16-3P: .446
Harden mid range stats last year 3-10 feet: .414 10-16 feet: .444 16-3P: .500

Melo is still very much in range as these top 5 guys. Again how are these guys so much better at shooting mid range jumpers than Melo? And Harden's mid range stats prior to last year are horrendous to say the least.

 

Are you even looking at your own numbers dude??? So Melo is terrible to not good enough anywhere from mid range.....got it looool. And that's why Harden shouldnt take that many mid rangers. This is a bad argument that you arent winning. Kawhi is also a highly efficient scorer while Melo is not, same with Harden.

 

Agreed, fg% does not give true synergy. But I'm using his fg% from range against other top tier, MVP calibur players. For the life of me I don't get your argument. If you are saying that Melo is not a great mid range shooter but you are pulling up TS% and win shares and plus and minus, what does have to do with his mid range shooting bro? It's like you are trying to make yourself sound smarter than what you really are. You're not really proofing a point, you are just throwing out a bunch of information that has no barring on the topic. Use information that is pertaining to the argument that you are making.

 

He's not a great mid range shooter.

 

Boy I swear CF has some of the brightest people this side of the Gulf. Smh... Bro it's really simple, if other people are saying that Melo is a bad mid range shooter but his numbers are inline with Kawhi or James. Kawhi in particular who NBA fans believe is a good mid range shooter, then that goes to show you that Melo is not as horrible as you and this other nerd are trying to make him out to be.

 

Based on the stats neither is Kawhi or Harden either.

 

Your own percentages tell me he's a bad mid range shooter LOL. Just because he's good(not actually good enough statistically form 3-10 ft while being terrible everywhere else from mid range doesnt make him a good mid range shooter. Holy crap. Kawhi is still an efficient scorer overall. Melo is not...which means his mid range is not shooting in any capacity is not making him an efficient scorer. He sucks. Overall.

Do you want me to show you the best mid range shooter most likely.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html Melo doenst come anywhere close to these numbers.

 

They are better everywhere except from 3-10 ft? I dont understand this argument either? Maybe Kawhi should take less of these too? But either way Both Harden and Kawhi are efficient overall. What they do, works for them. What Melo does.....does not. He's bad. He's not good. The mid range...has not helped him nor has it helped his team, that is the simplest way I can explain it.

 

Let's agree to disagree bro. It's no point in going back and forth anymore. Especially if we aren't going to base anything off of facts or numbers. I don't have time for emotionally based conversations...

 

In one post you claimed Melo was “great” for Portland last year. I gave you all the information needed to know that the exact opposite was true. He was bad. He was a mid volume, piss poor efficiency scorer, with zero other valuable assets to a basketball team. He’s an atrocious defensive player with little to offer on offense but to occasionally get semi hot so he can stupidly beat his chest and his fans can say “SEE!”

You then responded with a post comparing Melo’s FG% to Harden’s FG%. Had absolutely zero to do with your claim that Melo was great for Portland and that I had absolutely shredded that claim with relevant stats.

In a different post you claimed the Rockets forcefully stopped really good mid range shooters(Westbrook, Ariza, Melo) to not shoot mid range jumpers.

Neither of these 3 players are really good mid range shooters and neither is James Harden.

 

I never said Melo was good defensively. But I think you are only looking at the numbers from a vacuum to form your narrative. A lot of the other stuff you said had no barring on my point of Melo being a good mid ranger. You never once brought up the % from mid range for Melo, which was the counter argument you were making. You brought up a bunch of other $hit that made no sense for the argument lol. A lot of what you say sounds good but it still rings hollow in your argument. If you didn't understand why I used Kawhi and Harden as a measuring stick then I really don't know what to tell you. You bring up all these advanced analytical metrics that make you sound so smart but can't get why I would compare Melo to Kawhi in mid range shooting? That really baffling to me. Now I'll be man enough to concede my point about Westbrook and Ariza being good mid range shooters. Because after looking at their numbers yes you are absolutely 100% correct that Ariza and Westbrook do suck from mid range. But the point I won't concede is the fact that the Rockets have forced players to go away from their strengths. 40-44% is average, 45-48% is good, and anything over 49% from mid range or three is great IMO.

 

Melo Last Year : - 1.7 Wins above replacement

Yes that’s a negative. Meaning bad. Meaning not ok, mediocre, or good. And nowhere near great.

 

We were lucky to get OT and be that close. In the context of the last play, just lack of communication (zigged instead of zagged). Harden was pretty awesome last night.

The "Harden hater" comment would be that practice and preseason are important.

 

this is a silly convo. midrange shots are inefficient and so you evaluate efficiency by looking at the % of shot portfolio that's midrange, not by figuring out who has a higher midrange fg%

 

then tate knows what to do in that situation, pj obviously doesn't. he had an easy layup (can't say dunk) if he had the confidence to go do it, but years of failing has him scared. know your personnel, the plays you call should fit them.