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Not a basketball ops expert but is it a good idea to give away swaps on your draft picks then tank?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by JCDenton, Mar 29, 2021.

  1. vince

    vince Member

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    Don’t get me wrong. There would be just about an equal chance of OKC or Houston getting either a 5+ pick or the latter getting a top 4 pick. I’m sure OKC is sitting on pins an needles in this one too. Either a 5+ pick for them or the Miami pick going their way.

    It’s a 5 deep draft, with the picks 1-5 regarded as potentially franchise talents. Either ways, OKC or Houston will get a Franchise level talent. I hope it’s the Rockets!
     
  2. Scarface

    Scarface Supremely FocASSed
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    I can’t visualize what you’re saying... can you graph it?
     
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  3. cmlmel77

    cmlmel77 Around the World & Back to TX
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    It's amazing some of you are sincerely posting comments in a thread based on an obviously idiotic question (either legitimately stupid, or trolling).
     
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  4. pariah

    pariah Contributing Member

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    To the OP; it is Bitcoinsy-ish.
     
  5. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Swap picks gives the allusion something valuable was exchanged.

    For those who thought Stone was doing a great job, this is how it likely played out:
    Stone: Give me your 1st round pick
    Other teams GM: No
    Stone: Swap me your 1st round pick.
    Other Teams GM: No
    Stone: Swap me your 1st round pick but protect it. I really need to make this trade and I need to make it look like I got something in return. I really dont know what I am doing neither does my boss, lol
    Other Teams GM: Ok. deal.

    Either everyone knows the best player in the draft (Lebron, Kobe, ect...) which is usually found at #1 or #2 or its grasping at straws after the first 3 or 4 picks. Swapping #18 for #15 rarely yields significant value.
     
  6. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    C'mon....

    As of a game or two ago, the Rockets had used 30 starting lineups in 45 games. If that's not a record, % wise, through 45 games, I'd be surprised. I think they are 2nd or 3rd worst in the league in games missed due to injury (Orl and Memphis)

    Of course there's also the fact that it is their 4 of top 4 players are the ones mainly injured. And they weren't exactly deep to begin with post Harden, then also lost Cousins. (not that he was amazing but we all know sometimes it does actually make sense to have someone over 6'5 on the roster lol).

    Obviously a 20 game losing streak is crazy. But if Wood, Gordon, Dipo and Wall were available every game, I think its a fringe playoff team. Certainly play-in contention, if not better.
     
  7. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    That's not entirely true. the difference between #15 and #18 is clearly less than the difference between #5 and #18. Duh. But absolutely every move up you can make, the better your probability of drafting legit NBA players.

    also notably, the above conversation, before the swap agreement, is an issue if Stone just can't negotiate, or isn't doing the proper work, working the phones, etc.

    This conversation:
    Stone: Give me your 1st round pick
    Other teams GM: No
    Stone: Ok, bye!

    Wasn't really available
     
  8. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

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    I'm done wringing my hands over this bullshit. The Rockets absolutely better pray to whatever God resides in Toyota Center that those ping pong balls are favorable to them on Lottery Night. If they walk away from all of this with a middling pick this year, that would be disastrous from a public perception standpoint. We know they have promising talent in KPJ, Wood, Tate, and KMJ, but getting a Top 4 pick in this draft could accelerate a rebuild by YEARS.
     
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  9. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    I was today years old when I learned OP was not a basketball ops expert.

    Mind blown.
     
  10. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    But when you are trading away complete garbage, how good do you expect the draft compensation to be on top of getting back better players?

    Would you rather Stone have gotten nothing at all for those garbage players?
     
  11. Landry's Tooth

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    It's a throw in... you never know...

    The Dolphins thought they were getting a couple of first rounders in the 20s for Tunsil... injuries happen, under-performance happens, suspensions happen... you just never know...

    Did anyone have Miami hovering at .500 after being in the finals?

    They got pennies on the dollar for a healthy Oladipo... they ended up with a serviceable rotation big for a damaged Oladipo...
     
  12. alexcapone

    alexcapone Contributing Member

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    That makes sense but if you're tanking hard the likelhood will be that you don't swap and therfore there is no benefit to the swap rights. Doesn't it make sense to try to get another 1st or even 2nd rounder instead?
     
  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I don't think anyone expects the team to "tank hard", the goal as of now is a one season tactical tank that, if effective, puts the Rockets back into playoff contention next season and maybe championship contention in a few more seasons.
     
  14. Haymitch

    Haymitch Contributing Member

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    Those guys you listed - with the exception of Wood - aren't good. They haven't been contributing to us actually winning this year; they have been negative value players for many of the games they played.

    That's because we have a bad team. Injuries don't help, but again, every team has injuries. The difference is that not every team has as bad of players as we do. Hence, a 20 game losing streak.
     
  15. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Its not so much slamming the phone down if you don't get a great deal. Its just draft swaps are not that valuable unless you con a bottom feeder team to give up a very low draft pick.

    This is something Morey understood. Its hard to build a competitive team once tank mode is put in place. Skilled players found in the draft are not going to stick around if your team is not competitive. Additionally rookies need cultivating and if the team is stagnant, they are not going to grow to their full potential. As of last year, every player that has been on this team already has one foot out the door. Except for Green.

    Some of you really need to understand the magnitude of how incompetent Tilman really is as a sports owner.
     
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  16. jerryclark

    jerryclark Member

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    No graph??
     
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  17. roslolian

    roslolian Rockets Only Fan

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    Value is value, whether big or small.

    Ask other GMs if they'd take a swap for Drummond, Griffin or LMA, all of whom I'd say are better players than Dipo.
     
  18. topfive

    topfive CF OG
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    A JC Denton thread without charts???

    Seems like this miserable season will never end.
     
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  19. roslolian

    roslolian Rockets Only Fan

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    All the things you said are Morey's job not really Tillman. Tillman didnt tell Morey to keep tradinf first round picks year after year and didnt tell MDA not to develop rookies.

    All Tillman has to do is sign checks cuz thats the only thing an owner does. Tillman has only really balked at paying lux tax, something the owner before him always did as well. How come Presti was able to rebuild nicely despite having a skinflint owner? At least Tillman signed off on 4 year max deal for Cp3, OKC owner didnt even wanna pay for Harden.
     
  20. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    There's a big gulf between amazing and bad. And Wall, Gordon, Dipo, Wood is not bad.

    And we don't need to even argue about it. They were 7-1 in their last 8 games before Wood went down. 8-4 from the Harden trade till Wood went down. And all those games included players in and out a bit, too. It wasn't a murders row schedule, u they had wins against the Spurs, Mavs, Blazers, Griz among the 8. And equally noteworthy, their 20 game losing streak was as much against meh teams as good teams.

    And again, we don't need to argue it. We have data. Every team has injuries, but only the Rockets, Magic and Grizzlies have had this level of injuries, and only the Rockets have had such a high number of different starting lineups. The Rockets have 9 players that have started double digit games and 11 that started at least 8. The Grizzlies these are 7 and 8. The Rockets haven't had a single player start more than 33 games. The Grizzlies have had 4.
     
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