North Korea warns of attack if ships checked (Really People?)

If China were to switch their manufacturing capacity from commercial to war production, I don't think anybody would want to tangle with them, either.

 

I think you are right that the wait and see policy was tried too when Kim Il Sung died. I think then though the situation in NK wasn't quite as bad as it is now so there may be a possibility that any Kim successor might not be able to hold on and hopefully some more pragmatic leadership steps in.

At the moment though there doesn't seem to be any good option and wait and see is the least evil of the possible responses to NK.

 

looks like nk is going to test fire a missle capable of hitting alaska.

if this happens, china would have a lot egg on their face.

best case scenario...

1) china and russia agree not to interfere w/ military intervention by the us/sk/japan

2) nk initiates a military confrontation. usaf would already be prepared to strike at nk missles and artillary.

3) a coup occurs w/ a more pro-western government taking over nk.

4) the new nk goverment negotiates a permanent peace treaty w/ the us and sk. the option for reunification left open.

5) us withdraws their troops from sk to japan.

 

We just need to wipe NK and a large number of the middle eastern countries off the face of the plant. We would be doing the world a favor in the long run.

 

someone in that country needs to kill off that senile leader of theirs.. at this rate he'll surely get everyone nuked.. i'm telling you that old dude is not sane!

 

Why? Wasn't N. Korea happy being bribed with aid until GWB decided to play hard ball? China is placed in a bad situation in all of this, but that just makes it much worse for everyone. I don't think China will let anybody else take over NK, at the same time they don't want to get involved. If this was Civilzations the game, I'd trade them the U.S. backing off on Taiwan and Tibet issue for them to deal with the N. Korean mess; but in the real world, with economics, lives, and pride on the line, things are lot more complicated.

 

I would build an army of spies and steal their great people, then I would place units all around their capital to keep them from building or growing pop. After that I would build the magna carta and culture flip all the rest of their cities or build a nuke and level the capital.

 

And what about all of the people in those countries who only want to live in peace?

 

Dude, spies suck in civilization, so long to build, so easy to detect, so little true tactical advantage

 

I see you have a taste for genocide.

 

nk has a long history or saber rattling everytime they need something. and yes they took the handouts from clinton but they still continued their programs and kept proliferating nuclear and missle technology. that along with circulating counterfit currency and trading in narcotics.

i dont think there's a point in negotiating anymore. time and time again nk has proved that they dont negotiate in good faith.

youre right about china. the ball is in their court. i think china would be more agreeable to allowing nk to fail if the us would remove their forces from sk.

if this were civ, id have it on cheiftan mode so the us would be lightyears ahead of both nk and china. then id just invade w/ my tanks while they tried to defend w/ their warriors.

 

No disagreement on N.K. never negotiating in good faith, but I think if the regime didn't feel threatened, they wouldn't have gone the nuclear route. At the end of the day, the regime in NK just want to keep their power in their own country, while getting paid. They would've still being oppressive, saber rattlers but I feel that they went this deep into nuclear for 3 reasons:
1) Being grouped with Iraq and Iran as an axis of evil
2) Seeing one of the axis without Nuclear weapons invaded and a oppressive regime that's similiar to NK fall
3) The US was currently occupied with Iraq and thus wont be able to handle NK as aggressively as possible

I remember during an 2004 election debate in one of my college courses, where I asked the class if they actually felt safer after we went into Iraq, like 75% of the class raised their hand. That suprised the heck out of me in that people don't realize that the focus on Iraq (the most minor of threats) took so much resource away from containing Iran, NK, and rest of anti-terrorist efforts. Also, don't think Iran isn't looking at how U.S. is dealing with this whole situation.

Regarding China, I was born their so there's a little bit of bias there against running it over with tanks in Chieftan mode (nor do I thik it's likely), but I think China is like Dwight Howard right now trying to assert "you have dominant country in the region, let them be dominant". Still, I don't think U.S. will remove millitary bases in NK and Japan, I'm also not sure that's a necessarily a good way to go either. For both China and U.S. to flourish, it'd need to be a system of co-dependence and co-checking. Keeps both country on edege and from over reaching. But Obama and the current Chinese government need to have some serious conversation about what it takes to take care of NK, whose going to do it, and yes what deals need to be made to get it done.

 

mmmmm, the sweet, juicy taste of genocide is making my mouth water.

 

as far as civ, there are a couple of cheat codes so if you expand like crazy, then youre research will go into warp drive. so you can have tanks while your neighbors still have warriors.

i have to disagree about reason 1 and 2 for nk going nuclear. nk went nuclear bc they wanted to. although nk is dependent on china for its survival, that doesnt necessarily mean nk likes china. to be honest, koreans in general dont like china bc they are an outside super power influencing their decisions. their hate is not to the extent of their hatred for the japanese but im sure its not a real buddy buddy situation. it was mentioned in an earlier post but the korean penninsula has been run by outside superpowers for a long time. this has led to a lot of pent up frustration among koreans. shockingly, some south koreans feel that its good that nk has nukes...

reason 3 is slightly off bc i think nk had a secret program going on for a long time. long before us got tangled up w/ iraq/afghanistan. but nk knows that the us is preoccupied w/ several issues so now is the best time to perform test.

i didnt say the us would remove bases from japan. only sk. i think china would be more agreeable if they didnt have the us all up in their grill. also, by the us keeping troops in japan, it keeps the system of checks and balanaces and removes japans reason for fully rearming themselves. (which china would be really unhappy about...)

as far as the whole tiawan issue, im not chinese so i dont know all the nuances but as long as its a peacful reunification, i dont think the us can say much.

as far as tibet, maybe china should give a little more autonomy. a little autonomy (a la hk) may go a long way in quieting international criticism.

 

one more thing i forgot to mention. it looks like kim jong il has picked a successor (kim jong un, his 3rd son). this maybe another reason for the saber rattling. kim jong il is trying to solidify support for his son. if the cadre dont support his son, there wont be a nk left for them to live in.

lets just hope kim jong un is sane and realistic and does what is good for the people of nk.

 

Most North Koreans, through no fault of their own, are neither sane nor realistic due to the indoctrination of the juche philosophy since a young age.

 

but South Korea is indulged into Christian and democracy, both are far more dangerous and self-righteous than communism.

 

And so the thread descends into Bizarro World.

 

Bwhahaha!

 

Mother China will save them.