North Korea sentences U.S Student to 15 years hard labor

He's a thug, not a kid.

 

I would say you are probably correct on that assumption. But whether a bargain will be reached remains to be seen.

So what's your point? Whether he is a kid, thug, dumbass or all of the above, it doesn't really matter. Hardly anyone on this earth deserves to be locked in a NK prison.

 

Out of the dozen detained, one american total has spent longer than a year in prison there. Several were sentenced to years of hard labor. They get out in less than a year when cashed in. He deserves to be in prison because he is a fool and he gave more power to a POS government over their people and in the world. I hope he catches hepatitis.

 

Another example of China's close relationship with it's ally, North Korea. Yes, the kid was an idiot to go, but my question is - why on earth is China allowing tourism companies to operate there? The answer is obvious. It helps North Korea. Thanks, PRC, for continuing to prop up this mad regime.

 

This is absolutely idiotic. There are quite a few agencies you can go to in North America and Europe that can arrange the trip for you.

The tourist companies offer these services in China because there's a large demand from Westerners and China is one of the only countries that still runs a few flights into the country. Why would these tourist companies give two shet about propping up the NK regime or not, they are private companies that just want money from Western travelers.

Trust me, these services wouldn't exist if it wasn't for curious western travelers wanting to enter NK, because I don't think people in China have a desire to go there.

And by the way these tourist companies Chinese or American do not operate in Korea. All tourists are handled by the department of travel or something of NK who will provide you with guides. Tourist companies are just middlemen.

 

So China allowing tourism companies to operate from her territory doesn't benefit the North Korean regime? Are you seriously blaming the tourists for that? Your post is an idiotic attempt to defend China's continued support for North Korea. With all due respect.

 

Yeah because anyone who steals a banner from a wall deserves to get hepatitis!!! Way to go dude, you are so cool.

PRC has every right to have relationships with its ally. For us to complain about that we have to look at our alliances with Saudi Arabia and many other totalitarian regimes.

Going to N. Korea wasn't what made the kid an idiot. Doing something he knew might get him in trouble does.

 

Either you have no grasp on international relations or you are trying to be obtuse on purpose.

If you are going about argue China's support for NK, you should know that the few tourist companies setting up these trips are negligible and irrelevant compared to everything else that actually makes a difference.

And again there quite literally dozens of tourists companies OUTSIDE of China that will offer this service for Westerners that wants to go. Canada even has some kind of exchange program with NK.

 

Of course China has "every right" to have relations with North Korea. I never said she didn't. What I am upset about is that she continues to prop up the pariah of the world, in this case by allowing tourism companies to operate from her soil so that the North Korean regime can earn hard currency. A regime just condemned by the UN for setting off another nuclear weapon. A regime that is testing ballistic missiles so it can attack other countries with those nuclear weapons. A regime that is easily the greatest danger to the world to actually use nuclear weapons. Yeah, that North Korea. I can see China giving North Korea access to coal or food stuffs, because that benefits at least some of her people. There is no excuse for allowing these tourism companies to operate in North Korea from Chinese soil.

 

I think this is most likely the case. The guy did something moronic and the NK regime see a potential advantage out of it. The story the NK media put out plays right into their own propaganda and also holding an American, who did commit an actual crime, could be a valuable piece in negotiations.

 

The relationship between the PRC and NK is very complicated. One of the biggest fears that the PRC has is a catastrophic collapse of the regime that leads to a massive refugee crisis or possibly a desperate suicidal war that NK launches against SK, Japan and the US which would devastate the region. The PRC is NK's only ally but it's not a completely friendly alliance and the PRC has criticized NK's actions while NK has criticized the PRC for selling out Communism. The PRC has agreed to sanctions against NK for it's recent nuclear testing. In many ways the NK regime is blackmailing the PRC as much as they are the rest of the World.

 

He might be less of a fool than we think. Check this out...

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...r/news-story/357f95b68ef5d872b0650c044a6e09fb

If this is true, he's not in prison. He's drinking Hennessy and banging Pyongyang poontang.

 

I don't think he will be doing actual hard labor in an NK prison camp but I don't think he will be living the high life either. Stealing banner is an actual crime and the threat of NK gulag is probably enough to make him beg and say pretty much anything that the regime wants him to. At the same time risking his life and health is probably not in NK's interest.

From what I recall of other Americans held by NK is that they haven't been treated harshly but it wasn't Club Med and all of them have come out looking thinner and less healthy.

 

Oh, I don't doubt for a second that the relationship between the PRC and NK is complicated. It must be difficult for an oligarchy to have a reasonable relationship with a truly mad dictatorship.

I keep hearing about this great fear of an NK regime collapse which leads to a "massive refugee crisis." A "massive refugee crisis" so terrible that the PRC has enabled the NK regime to develop nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them. Funny that democratic South Korea doesn't constantly trumpet the same fear, since they would undoubtably end up with far more refugees than China after the dust settles. Of course, it could very well be dust riddled with radiation. Yes, I'm using a certain amount of sarcasm, but it's directed at the replies to my posts, not the substance of my take on what is happening in the Korean Peninsula and the actions, or inaction, of the PRC to what North Korea is doing.

China makes a certain amount of "noise" in the UN and in the media condemning North Korean actions, and has for years now, but what have they really done? Little to nothing, except for the "noise" for international consumption. Meanwhile, they help provide the NK regime with the hard currency it needs to buy the technology for their weapons programs. That is, the technology they haven't received over decades from China. Technology that makes that "suicidal war the would devastate the region" more likely, not less, in my humble opinion.

Please detail those sanctions, Judo, if you can. Not only the supposed sanctions they claim to be instigating now, but the sanctions they has instituted over many years that might have made a difference in the incredibly dangerous situation that exists today.

This is another defense of China's actions, or inaction, with regard to North Korea that I keep seeing. First, I don't buy it, not to the extent you obviously do, and second, what about the actual blackmail North Korea is conducting against South Korea and her allies? Just what does China expect South Korea and her allies to do? Sit around and twiddle their thumbs?

We have pulled out of South Korea over these last many years a great deal of the military power we had had there for decades. Does China want us to build up our forces there again to the 50,000+ we once had there? More to the point, is it in China's interest to have South Korea develop nuclear weapons? For Japan to develop nuclear weapons? Isn't that more dangerous to China's interests than some "massive refugee crisis" that might or might not occur? Both South Korea and Japan could develop nuclear weapons pretty quickly if they decided to, and who could blame them if they did? China would, of course, despite being partly responsible for the North Korean actions.

There's an American expression I'm sure you are familiar with, Judo. I'll use it here. It's time, far past time, for the PRC to either fish or cut bait. "Fishing" isn't working out well for them, unless they wish to see an East Asia with several countries possessing nuclear weapons and an East Asia far more dangerous than it is now, as difficult as that is to believe.

 

Just the language you use does show that you are once again shows you are viewing this through the lens of an East West Cold War. The PRC is an ogliarchy but it is also pragmatic and very concerned with stability when it comes to the Korean Peninsula. SK is one of the RPC's biggest trading partners and relations between Beijing and Seoul are generally good.

The PRC hasn't enabled the NK to develop nuclear weapons. NK has done so in spite of the PRC's objections. If you have evidence to support that the PRC has enabled NK's nuclear program I would like to see that.

As far as the refugee crisis you are mistaking the the DMZ with the Yalu River. I've never been to the Yalu River but I've been to Northern China and from what I've heard from people there is that the border is very porous and smuggling is rampant along with movement of people already. There are already many Koreans who cross the border to work and trade in the PRC illegally and it is one of the headaches for the PRC.

The DMZ on the other hand is one of the most heavily guarded and mined borders. It would be difficult for refugees to just pour over that border. That said SK is themselves concerned with humanitarian problems if NK suddenly collapses. Given how far backward NK is it would be difficult for SK's economy to deal with.

While there are clamors for reunification of the Korean Peninsula I think the feeling of most Koreans is for a gradual controlled collapse of NK.

Once again I don't think you are really understanding their position. You seem to be just looking at this through your own lens. Consider if Mexico was a backward a NK. Think about how much anger and fear there is already in the US about illegal Mexicans. Now what would happen if Mexico's economy and government completely collapsed with mass starvation and a complete breakdown in social order. The US would be overrun by Mexicans. That is not something many Americans would want to see.

The PRC has agreed to the latest round of UN sanctions that are discussed in this article.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-cirincione/un-hits-north-korea-with_b_9368416.html

[rquoter]The scope of these sanctions goes far beyond past efforts. With China’s backing, North Korea will now face a complete weapons embargo. Countries will be required to thoroughly inspect every piece of cargo entering or leaving the country. There is a new, comprehensive ban on luxury goods, and several dozen high-ranking individuals and organizations have been blacklisted. The UN banned the supply of jet fuel as well as critical materials that have supported North Korea’s development of nuclear weapons.[/rquoter]

And again you are not considering how much of a disaster a collapse of NK would be. Further as noted yes NK does blackmail SK and the rest of the world for that matter and to a large extent SK and the rest of the world have gone along with it. Nobody seriously wants a war and/or a massive humanitarian disaster that could happen with NK.

This is where the relationship is very complicated the PRC is on record as for a non-nuclear Korean Peninsula that said they understand that if things actually got hairy SK and Japan are under the US's nuclear umbrella. Further many experts on Asia have pointed out that the PRC is actually happier with SK and Japan being under the US protection than if they were to independently.

If Japan were to develop nukes it would raise red flags not just with the PRC but every other Asian country that still has memories of the Imperial Japan. It's one reason why nearly every other Asian country even if they have disputes with the PRC still don't want to see Japan remilitarize. At the moment the Japanese are fine with being under the US umbrella and so is SK. If an arms race were to happen it would've happened already.

Also you seem to hold the PRC responsible for NK's actions just because they've provided aid. Considering that the US provides a lot of aid to countries like Pakistan, Egypt and Israel under your reasoning then shouldn't the US be responsible for the actions of those countries too?

 

Speaking of the US military, one other issue to consider in this case is that the US and SK are conducting annual major war games right now. This is a very sore point with the NK and they frequently ramp rhetoric and sabre rattle during the games. Just today they launched two missiles.

Most likely because of the war games they wanted to make a point with this guy and he just happened to be dumb enough to oblige them.

 

As a student, he will have an excellent opportunity to be redeemed not only from his imperialist war crimes, but to have an opportunity to find pure joy by embracing the Juche Idea! Clearly, a win-win situation to have such a life experience in the happiest country in the world.

 

Note this idiot was taken by NK just after Obama paid huge money to Iran to get our hostages freed there. Obama negotiated with terrorists, which had this after effect.

Obama deserves considerable blame for this debacle.

 

I should have known that you would take the most bizarre angle possible on this issue. North Korea has been pulling this crap for years and years. Do some, oh, you know, research? You will see that it's true. Not that you will look, or care about the facts.

 

I should have known you'd be OK with Obama's negotiation with terrorists. Your justification: "because Obama".

You need to learn to think for yourself and not be so tainted with the bias of your political party.