1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

No Tmac, no Artest, no Ariza, no Yao..the Rockets are boring once again

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by W22_STREAK, Oct 16, 2010.

  1. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    But funnily enough, the coaching staff encouraged him to do the stuff that lead to those things.

    And there was really no one else who was a better option than Ariza at the wings. We had Shane as the other swingman, and you can't tell me you'd rather have Shane taking those shots than Trevor.
     
  2. across110thstreet

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2001
    Messages:
    12,760
    Likes Received:
    1,455

    and you mentioned T-Mac, Artest, and Ariza as examples?

    both Ariza and Artest saved their respective roles on Championship Teams with stellar play LATE in their playoff runs.

    I defended McGrady here to no end and for what? a 22 game winning streak and excuses after excuses.

    you sure aren't helping your argument.

    we have TWO world Class players in Scola and Yao, and so much firepower we don't know what to do with it.

    During the nbatv team preview, they mentioned how unique this team was while going down the roster. they just kept mentioning all of our under the radar players like chase, chuck, and shane who are going to be ready to make a difference.

    martin, lowry, brooks, miller. should I keep going?
     
  3. shortfuse3

    shortfuse3 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    3,912
    Likes Received:
    59
    T-Mac gave us one exciting year. That's it. The rest of the years we were bored to death with low scoring games in the 80s. I'm so glad T-Mac is gone. Even when he was healthy he would walk up the court on a fast break.

    This new team is the most exciting Rockets team I've ever seen post championship era. We're so deep and we can actually run a fast break!
     
  4. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    Now now, I'd rather be an idiot standing up for the things I believe in, rather than being the populist hero superficiously claiming popularist opinions and trying to lick everyone's a##ses
     
  5. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    You can't blame those low scoring games on T-Mac. who did he have as complimentary scorers? None. In fact I don't think his complimentary supporting cast can be called "scorers".

    The offense was surely boring half-court offense under the JVG times...but did we really have the sufficient personnel to score anything more than 100 points per game on a regular basis? We had some of the worst offensive starters you could ever witness in the league that is known as the NBA, in Rafer Alston, Chuck Hayes, and Shane Battier.

    So basically it was 2 superstars and 3 other starters that can't even make a layup to save their life.

    If you thought that starting lineup could give you blazing fast-breaking offense, then T-Mac would have needed to be better than Jordan at scoring.

    This is just the typical finger-pointing at T-Mac. I doubt Kobe would have lead his team to 100+ ppg games if his starting power forward was Ryan Bowen.
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    125,605
    Likes Received:
    34,677
    I finally agree.

    DD
     
  7. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    ^^ actually no way, Kobe would never have been anywhere close to doing that. If T-Mac couldn't do it, Kobe wouldn't have sniffed a chance.
     
  8. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    You may choose to agree with whatever you want, but in this case we'll have to agree to disagree.
     
  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    125,605
    Likes Received:
    34,677
    Hell no we don't...I don't agree to disagree with your innane point.

    Trevor Ariza sucked balls, he was horrible and no 2 month stretch where he was average at best will ever change that.

    Morey made a massive mistake signing him, and by the grace of his hard work, he was able to find another sucker to take him and get a cheaper better player in Courtney Lee.

    Morey doesn't always hit it out of the park, but he gets rid of his mistakes very fast....Artest and Ariza one and done....smart man, that Morey.

    Way smarter than a lot of Rocket's fans apparently.

    DD
     
  10. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    Ariza and Artest was the 4th, if not the 5th option on their championship runs.

    T-Mac had to be the number one option in any and every game he played. His level of play was far superior and far more impactful than any of those performances Ariza and Artest put up in their championship runs no matter how big they might have stepped up.

    We do indeed have a lot of depth and firepower, but whos gonna be that player with the x-factor in him that can take over down the stretch and make big play after big play? Whos gonna be the star thats gonna take the lead and carry the team on his back when the going gets tough and challenges arise? With the olden Rockets we had T-Mac who created special play and special play, as witnessed in the Dallas and Utah playoff series. Now with Lee, Miller, Lowry, Brooks...whos can we really count on?
     
  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    125,605
    Likes Received:
    34,677

    All of them.

    DD
     
  12. Rip Van Rocket

    Rip Van Rocket Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    356
    T-Mac a physical specimen? T-Mac can't even run or jump anymore.

    A dead body in the morgue is also a physical specimen, and that pretty much describes T-Mac at this point in his career, completely lifeless.
     
  13. blackistan

    blackistan Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,142
    Likes Received:
    737
  14. rockets247

    rockets247 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    12
    W22_Streak...

    SOLOMON IS THAT YOU?
     
  15. RV6

    RV6 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    25,522
    Likes Received:
    1,109

    First of all, all gambling isnt the same. Trevor didnt know how to pick his spots, he just went for it....he would gamble on a post up, leaving the man open where he just had to pivot to get a layup. Ron did the same as well, but ariza did it more. Gambling isn't bad, if you know when to do it. Doing it when the chance of success is low AND it leaves your teammates at a disadvantage is not a good thing, especially when it's done multiple times a game. Im not sure i'd say they're flat out selfish..maybe it was just overconfidence, i dont know..but that's looking out for yourself more than the team.

    I haven seen Wallace enough to say much about him...but based on the words you used, such as " he was once bashed" and "now everyone hails him", leads me to believe that he improved his defense or became more consistent. People don't change their views if player's play the same, unless there is a significant change in winning, which there hasnt been for Charlotte...unless you count this past season, is that when his defensive rep changed?

    Ariza's games against Kobe, especially the first one, was primarily fueled by emotion...he was clearly trying to show LA what they were missing. It's what every player does against a former team that traded them or didnt resign them. He's also more familiar with Kobe, so he should be able to guard him better than battier. Yes, he still would do a solid job if he had never been Kobe's teammate, but this is like declaring Bad Miller is a way better offensive player than Yao if he comes in here and cruises through Adelman's offensive system. He should cruise through it. Yet, ariza's D on Kobe was never as good as it was in that first game and never that much better than battier's after that first game either. It definitely wasnt better against the rest of the league either. We dont play LA 82 times a year.

    You dont have to have shot blocking to be an uptempo team... an outlet pass on a rebound is just as effective at starting a fast break and we have a great outlet passer in chuck and the rest of our bigs are solid at it. A defensive rebound happens a lot more often than a block, which means more opportunities for a fast break if you chose to take advantage of it. We also have a ton of guys who can get steals at any moment. You're focused on one or two steals trevor got that led to his dunks, but i'll gladly take a steal by Lowry/Brooks/lee/martin/battier/hayes that lead to one or two passes which leads to a layup/dunk/fts. Teams don't get style points.

    And why so much emphasis on ariza's steals??? he's never averaged more than 1.8 a game and his career avg is 1.3, that's hardly exceptional and not much better than Lee (1.4, 1.4), battier (1.6, 1.1), lowry (1.4, 1.0) and hayes in limited PT (1.1, 0.8)....and those are guys on his team, not even the league leaders........also take into consideration how much ariza played, he led the team in PT and had a whole lot more than chuck and lowry...if you adjust the PT they'd all probably be right there with him
     
  16. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    Last season, Ariza did not have the luxury of an elite dominant big man that could set him up for easy buckets and because of that his field goal percentage suffered. However, the team did make a trade in February that took some of the scoring duties away from Ariza, as Kevin Martin became the focal point of the offense, along with Aaron Brooks. Before the Martin trade, Ariza was averaging nearly 15.5 shots per game, shooting 37 percent from the field and only 28 percent from the three point line. After the trade, Ariza was far more efficient. His shot attempts went down to only 11.5 per game and his shooting percentages went up- 43.5 from the field and nearly 39 percent from three. In essence, Rockets fans saw two different Trevor Ariza’s last season.

    Now if you said the pre-trade Ariza was horrible, even though I still disagree with you, I could understand where you are coming from. But post-trade Ariza was more than serviceable and effective as a Rockets starter.

    There was a reason why Battier went to the bench after we got a legit SG, and not Trevor Ariza. ;)

    Sure, you don't have to agree with my judgment of Ariza. But I am not going to agree with your judgment of Ariza, Trevor.
     
  17. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    Its extremely late here..haven't slept all night. Will reply to this later today. Make sure to check back if you are keen.
     
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    125,605
    Likes Received:
    34,677
    Well golly gee Beav, neither did anyone else on the team and they didn't suck as bad as Trevor.

    Excuses are like assholes, everyone has one, and if it is not yours it stinks.

    Yours stink.

    DD
     
  19. liljojo

    liljojo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,423
    Likes Received:
    227

    Stromile Swift.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Notable Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    57,537
    Likes Received:
    50,087
    Without Ariza the 22 win streak would not have been possible.
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now