I don't eat pork or beef but I recognize BS when I see it. Playing basketball doesn't qualify you as a coach. In fact, some of the best coaches were not very good players. Larry Brown, Rick Carlisle, Phil Jackson, Greg Poppovich, Rick Adelman and Flip Saunders to name a few. All NBA teams (including last years' Tomjanovich Rockets) run I high pick and roll. Stockton and Malone will be in the HOF because of it. It is a staple of the game. If the Rockets are not as successful with it as they ought to be perhaps the players bear some of the responsibilty. If you think leaving Yao and Cato on each side of the paint makes it easier to drive to the basket and/or create mismatches, you are grossly mistaken. There is not one game commentator who won't mention that high PnR makes Shaq have to play defense out of his comfort level. But you know more, correct? No hard feelings.
What are you talking about? Is the concept or last night's play? I'm talking about the useless "picks and not rolls" last night. No hard feelings. BTW, what is BS?
i completely disagree. the lakers are one of the worst team's in the nba and defending the high pick and roll because shaq does not come out for it. if you watch last night's game, steve was able to get to the hoop a number of times and he also had open jump shots. mobley also made a wide open shot when they ran it for him. i'd like Yao to post up more, but his picks were far from useless and a lot of baskets were the result of them.
Man, you're crazy. The picks are a critical part of JVG's game plan. I wish sometimes that Steve and Cat would use them more like Bibby does, but they make running the offense a lot easier for Steve. Some of you obviously think we need to start the offense by throwing the ball to Yao in the post EVERY SINGLE PLAY but that's simply not going to happen. Yao sets some of the biggest picks in the game, and how we run the plays off of these picks is going to continue to evolve over the next few years. Didn't anyone else enjoy seeing Payton getting flattened by a Yao pick early on in the game. My prediction is that JVG will have some new wrinkles for the Lakers based on picks in the next few games - hopefully our shooters can make the shots.
If your point is that the Rockets should not run PnR, it's just flat out wrong for the reasons I've already mentioned in two prior posts. If your point is they run it poorly, that's the players more than the coach. If your point is that Yao should plant himself under the basket, your wrong again. If I've misundersttod your point, restate it...otherwise I don't see why the Rockets would abandon the PnR. I don't eat beef but I know what they deposit.
Not using 7'5 Giant as an effective pick is criminal. And one of Lakers weakness is to defend pick n roll, so I don't have any problem of Yao setting up those high picks. The problem of Yao setting up pick is not he cannot get the good low post position, but our guard cannot hit the jumper consistently or make right decision after the pick. Have Shaq work on defend pick and roll is a good way to draw Shaq out of the paint and have him work on defense all the time, which will open the driving lanes for our guards to utilize their quickness against lakers defender (Fisher, GP).
I had an impression that for game 1 against lakers, Yao ming was seen running all over the half court and busying himself doing picks ( picks but not rolls) for everybody at the expense of neglecting his duty as a center. I saw lot of times, he didn't have time to be back to get rebounces or tip the ball into the basket. That is the reason I started the thread. It is little stretching to say I mean Rockets(I didn't even have the word "Rockets" in my prior posts) should stop using a sound basketball strategy of ricks and rolls. I mean it is more a waste than help for Yao to do too many "picks and not rolls" while neglectiing his duty as a center. Had Yao Ming be a little closer to the basket, be where he as a center should be, the situation would be different. Some fans pointed out, Yao Ming started to do picks when he was freezed out ot the game, that might be the case, but again, Yao Ming might have directed his energy to wrong direction. If there is no balls from the pointing guard, the rebounds will be a better resounce.
The pick and roll is ineffective, for the simple reason that it takes Yao out of the offense. As Bill Walton pointed out, pass it into to Yao, and watch as we get a good look. Why run a pick and roll with a team that can't pass. It makes no sense. Cato is the pick and roll person. I believe it was Cato that lit up the Lakers before on the oop. Let him set the picks. Let Yao rule the paint.
Thank you PhiSlammaJamma! There is at last some one that understands my point. Hehe, maybe my English isn't perfect. My bad.
If you're running a pnr with Francis and Cato, you can't have Yao in the lowblock. Neither player in the pnr will be able to dive to the basket because Yao and his defender -- Shaq! -- will be in the way. Plus, the option of the picker taking a jumpshot over a smaller defender is eliminated because Cato can't shoot. I'm equally annoyed by complaints that Francis isn't passing on the pnr. Playing against other teams with better pnr defense, it is true he hasn't passed it to the picker when he should have. But, in Game 1 against the Lakers, he would have no defender on him after the pick. Why would you pass it to a guy who has a defender (albeit a small one) flattened against him? Honestly, I may have preferred Mobley to Francis on this play because he can hit a pull jumper better. But otherwise, I don't know if there is much to complain about here.
Which of those coaches were not good players? Pop and Flip were the only two on your list that did not play pro ball. Both of them played in college.
That's not what we said. If we are going to pick and roll it should be with Cato and Francis. We didn't say Yao had to be on the block during the pick and roll. We simply said Cato is much more effective in the Pick and Roll. As he has always been. It's his specialty. I'd rather have Cato at the rim than Yao popping a 16 footer, which by the way, never seems to happen. He just holds the ball up there. But why even in pick and roll at all. Yao never gets the 16 footer. Yao never rolls to the hoop. Yao never takes advantage of the little guy. Francis never passes the ball. And we all know he's terrible at passing anyway. The pick and roll has failed us down the stretch of many games. It hasn't been effective at all. I just don't get the point of it. When we dominated the Lakers offensively we got the ball to Yao in the paint. The pick and roll simply gives Yao the ball with no where to go. His height advatage all but stripped out of the game.
I think everyone is misunderstanding why they use Yao for the PnR .. Yao is defended by Shaq so when Yao sets the pick it draws Shaq away from the basket making it easier for everyone to drive to the rim. True Yao needs to start shooting from the high post once in awhile or else Shaq will stay back and whoever comes off the pick has to be able to nail those midrange jumpers (ala Cassell) . I think Cat or JJ would be much more effective coming off those picks and I dont know why Cato / Mot dont set more picks? or is it because their picks seem ineffective? For some reason we dont run the PnR right it looks awkward unless Yao is setting them. I want to see JJ come off a Yao screen and pop a short midrange jumper I think he would be the best to do it. Yao needs to set picks and take some jumpers I think it helps him rest instead of battling down in the post constantly which will wear him down sooner. J
All good points. Plus you forgot to add offensive rebounding. But that being said, you don't take the ball out of your best players hands. Which is what we are effectively doing by running that pick and roll. I just don't understand the thinking. What team does that?
A number of good points from several posters here. Playing PnR with Yao has some advantages (drawing Shaq out) and some disadvantages (drawing Yao out). You have to balance that with some low post play for Yao. I like to point out that there are different kind of picks that Yao sets to varied degrees of success: a) The PnR with Steve at the right elbow extended allows Steve to drive to the middle and Yao to roll to the hoop. It rarely works because Steve does not stop and pop much and Yao's is too slow rolling to the hoop. This is the play that got Steve some 3s last yr and earlier in the year when he could still shoot. This is the play that gets Cato his dunk. When Steve drives around Yao to top of the key and Yao attempts to roll to the hoop, sometimes both defenders stay with Yao which forces opponent's PF to rotates in order to cut off the penetration down the middle. This leaves Cato open. b) The same PnR with Cat gets him lots of shots at the FT line. c) The pick sets at the elbow for Steve to drive to the right has 2 primary options, Steve all the way to the hoop or Yao's fade to the key for a 20ft shot. Either option works a few times. d) The same pick as c) at the elbow, sometimes with the PF at the opposite elbow is not a PnR for shots, but it allows Yao to roll to the front of the basket and get post position on the move. It should work great but it almost never does 'cause the timing between Yao and Steve is always off. Yao only has 2 seconds in there and Steve almost never found him. e) The pick Yao sets at the left low block for JJ coming around to the wing is used to get Yao low post position.
