I wonder about cost-of-living stuff myself. I've always heard about how much more expensive it is to live in a place like D/FW compared to the town where I grew up (Amarillo, Texas). Yet when I moved to D/FW I noticed that many of the things I buy frequently are actually cheaper. I mean, even the prices at the fast food restaurants are usually cheaper (though not always, and even prices in different parts of the Metroplex are sometimes different). My groceries are cheaper than they were in Amarillo. Gasoline is usually cheaper. Even housing can be had for cheaper (there are a greater variety of housing prices in D/FW than Amarillo. Of course, the average for all of D/FW might well be higher than the average for all of Amarillo). Of course, those estimates can't be 100% accurate anyway (especially in regards to large cities where there is significant variation between different parts of the market), but I was all prepared to pay more for things when I left Amarillo for D/FW, but I've been pleasantly surprised that the things I buy are usually cheaper in the Big City. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
Here, by the way, is the bit from Nielsen Media's website concerning how they determine their rankings and ratings. Nielsen Media Research uses the U.S. Census Bureau's decennial (updated annually) census counts of all housing units in the nation. Using these data, Nielsen Media randomly selects more than 6,000 small geographic areas (blocks in urban areas and their equivalent in rural areas) and dispatches surveyors to each area to enumerate and list the housing units. Sample housing units are randomly selected within each sample area. Each occupied housing unit is a household. This sampling method is designed to give each occupied household a chance to be selected for the Nielsen People Meter Sample. Self-selected volunteers, though plentiful, do not represent the viewing of those who don't volunteer, and therefore cannot be included in the sample. I don't see anything about them taking into account the support for the sports teams in determining the size of any market. All it says is they go to the Census Bureau and ask for the number of households per market and work from that. So, according to the Census Bureau, Houston is 11th in number of households (which means that Houstonians must, on average, have more people living together than some other cities since Houston is 10th in population rankings according to the Census Bureau. This, of course, doesn't take into account the 700,000 Houstonians that the Census Bureau doesn't count for some reason). http://www.nielsenmedia.com ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
Oh, and those MSA population numbers I gave before were the 1999 estimates. The 2000 actual count shows the DFW MSA with 5,221,801 residents and Houston with 4,669,571. Clearly, the Census didn't count 752,230 residents in the Houston MSA since the figures available at "any library" show that the Houston MSA is about 200,000 larger than the DFW MSA. I wonder why the Census Bureau has it in for Houston and refuses to count those three quarters of a million people. It's scandalous, if you ask me. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
What "products" do you mean? Are you talking about homes because they vary widely depending upon where you live. As for products and services, I've never had a hard time getting either one for a decent price and I've bought stuff all over the place. I've laughed to myself that Houston was like Bizarro Dallas. That is so hilarious because my wife and I said the same thing about Dallas in regards to Houston - Bizarro Houston! When we were there, we said, "They have The Edge and we have The Buzz, etc." Everywhere we went, we found those types of things. Personally, I don't like Dallas for the same reason as rockHEAD. Zoning is a double-edged sword. It creates great things like corner stores and neighborhood restaurants and bad things like sprawl and overbearing homeowners associations. You have to take the good with the bad, I guess. ------------------ The internet is about the free exchange and sale of other people's ideas. - Futurama
Okeydokey, The census you showed is news to me. The census I saw at the library still showed us with around 4.4, but the Dallas statistic had 4.1-something. Sorry, but that just strikes me as really odd. However, you showed me one in black and white, so for the time being, I have to use your statistic as fact. I've seen that media market definition before, and believe me, it is a bunch of hooey! I'll put it another way; it is the politically correct way to not tick people off. Believe me, it is a lot more complicated than that definition (anything involving money is always going to be more complicated) ------------------ "I never did like that "Dr. Stupid""-Monty Burns
Last time I was at Dallas was a couple months ago and I found nothing appealing about that city. Everything from their restaurants to their radio stations were poor to average. Can someone tell me what's so great about Dallas? I hope I'm not sounding like your typical whiney Houstonian that has a chip on his shoulder. ------------------ I don't want to waste my time And become a casualty of society. I'll never fall in line Become a victim of your conformity and back down.
So, even though Nielsen Media's whol job is to provide as accurate a TV rating as possible (a rating which, most of the time, has nothing to do with sports at all), they somehow undercount the number of TV households in Houston simply because Houstonians don't support the Astros, Oilers, Rockets, whoever? Nielsen purposely doesn't do their job and the reason behind it is money? Sorry, I'm not seeing the connection. (And actually, it's the Census Bureau that's cheating Houston again. According to their data, the Houston MSA has 1,712,060 households, making it 11th on the Census Bureau ranking of Metro Area households. I had no idea the Census Bureau took into account the support for the sports teams when they counted households in the various MSAs. Considering Amarillo's lackluster support for the Amarillo Dillas, I would guess that city is WAY undercounted. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Amarillo is actually a larger TV market than Dallas once we make adjustments for the support of the local sports teams. Unless High School football counts, then Amarillo is right where it should be). But let's pretend for a moment that the Census Bureau is skewing the number of households in the Houston MSA for money. They're not doing much of a job about it. Population data from the Census shows Houston MSA at 10th in population. Household data from the Census shows Houston MSA at 11th in number of households. I'm simply amazed to learn, though, that our Government takes into account sports team support when deciding whether or not to count a household as a household. It truly is fascinating. I'm surprised no one has bothered to report this. Since Census numbers are used to determine funding for areas and for drawing district boundaries. One would think that since sports team support is one of the criteria that determines whether a houeshold is a household, there would be people all over that pointing out that it isn't fair. As for Dallas vs. Houston, I still can't believe that people see so many differences between the two places. For the most part, I can't tell them apart. (And I would maintain that the people who do see huge differences see them because they only have limited experience with one of the two cities. For example, I may think that Houston has better locally-owned restaurants while Dallas has no good locally-owned restaurants. It could well be that I'm just not familiar enough with D/FW to know where the good locally-owned restaurants are, etc. Not to mention that people are usually going to like their home city better than they like some other place, no matter how "the same" the two places might seem to outsiders). ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
I agree. I've lived here for over 3 years and anytime I bring up Houston in a conversation with Dallasites, the only responses I ever get are "man, it's humid down there, huh?" or "oh, then you must be used to pretty bad traffic". On a daily basis I don't think Houston really crosses the minds of most Dallasites. The reverse is not true, however. One of the interesting reasons why is because of the Cowboys. There are so many Cowboy fans down in Houston, you can't help but bring up a little anger in the Houston homebase. I dunno. I kind of like Dallas in a way because I can actually go somewhere and escape traffic and the city. This place actually has a suburb. I can actually go by a lake without having to drive across the state to find it. I like the lower humidity. I like the fact it's become a tech center. It's a more forward-thinking city in someways. I loved living in Houston, but I doubt I'd ever go back. With the way things are growing so fast around here, though, the traffic is going to be a mess. One thing is for sure. This town is more white collar than Houston. People here tend to be snootier than Houston. The women in Houston were far nicer. But in general I don't think Houston was any more or less friendly than Dallas. ------------------ "Light travels faster than sound, so some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak." -- Brian Williams (now Bison Dele) commenting on Isiah Thomas.
You are. ------------------ "Light travels faster than sound, so some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak." -- Brian Williams (now Bison Dele) commenting on Isiah Thomas.
Paige, My comment about Houston taking over for Dallas was more in line with culture/attractions. Houston is generally regarded as one of the better eating cities in the country (one national critic put it at 4), the Symphony has been solid, HGO, Houston Ballet, The MFA is better than the DMA, Houston has The Menil, Rothco Chapel, etc. Also, Houston is far superior in regards to artists living and working there, galleries, etc. I am just saying that maybe this has caused some issues. Ultimately, I do not know. I have heard negative from both sides. And yes, there is a difference physically -- Dallas is a little more hilly! And has more parks and lakes and stuff. I liked Dallas as a city, just was not fond of the people, restaurants, and a few other minor issues. Dallas is definitely more white-collar, less diverse, etc etc.blah blah ------------------ "You sanctimonious philistines, who scoff at me!"
A couple of things......Cost of living is significant when you come from Corpus and move to Austin. Also, gas is more expensive in larger cities. Houston's was about 30 cents higher then CC. Isn't it amazing that almost half of the citizens (legal) in Texas live in either the HOuston MSA or the Dallas MSA ? I've been to Houston alot more then Dallas, and I think there is good and bad about both cities, just like any other city except Austin. ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
I am returning to Houston soon. I have lived in Iowa City for several years (you guess the state it's in!) Chicago is three and a half hours away. I have friends there and love to visit. It has many things that Houston doesn't, of course; physical location helps with that (downtown set against Lake Michigan, split by branches of the tiny Chicago River). My recollection about prices is a little different, though. Chicago is expensive as hell. The quality might be better but that's debatable. And cold!!! You want to freeze your nards off, come on to the Midwest. I was born in Houston and lived there many years and, as mentioned, will continue to do so. I'm not fond of conservatism (no-zoning ordnances and lack of strict business regulation encourage the small businessman; I've never met a small businessman who wasn't conservative if not outright reactionary) or traffic (Houston badly needs a real rail system but thanks to local politicians will never get one). But the people are very friendly, the population is diverse (very important: all-white equals all-boring), the food is great, I love the Rice/museum district. And the women? Daaaaaaaaaamn! (Although I am now relegated to "look-don't-gawk definitely-don't-touch" status.) I wish I could impress some of these things on Chris Webber. ------------------
I used to have relatives in both Houston and Dallas. I always preferred visiting Houston. It really did seem like the people were more friendly, and like the city didn't take itself quite so seriously. Of course, I actually lived in Houston for a couple of years, so I'm probably just biased . Dallas seemed more structured, but without as many quirky little things that I found attractive. I think the person who said Dallas tries to be too much lik NYC was correct. Don't get me wrong, I love NYC, but too many cities try to mimic it. That's what many Bostonians were mad about Celucci concerning (and maybe why he took the Ambassadorship). He kept on making proposals for different things to stay open all night, etc... and the response was always "no, that's NYC, not Boston." ------------------ A few years back on the Senate floor... Phil Gramm: "If Democrats could, they'd tax the air we breathe." Ted Kennedy (jumping up): "By God, why didn't I think of that sooner!" Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
Just had to reply to this obviously painful subject of Houston vs Dallas. I live in Dallas currently (well, one of their many small cities) for the past 2.5 yrs. & there is no question that Houston (lived in Surgarland) is far & away a better place to live when compared to Dall-a$$ & it's flawed metroplex. Let's forget about the differences in population & media, hell these people still can't forget the Kennedy assination. These people don't want to be like New Yorkers, they are truly L.A. wannabes. The cost of living in Dallas is high when compared to our fantasy land which we call Houston. Gas, utilities/water, food & housing is anywhere from 10-15 percent more. As far as traffic is concerned, other cities come to Houston to learn how to build freeways, just wish somebody from D/FW would (yes it's true it takes over 9 years to widen 6 miles of freeway). There are so many spur & loop roads that connect to a freeway, your lost before you ever get to your destination. Is this a good thing? Oh, I forgot to mention that if you miss your exit, good luck because there might not be another for the next 10 miles. Now, when you finally do exit, forget about that feeder road. Why? Well, because there are none. Ok, maybe there are a few, but not enough to make your driving any easier. As for D/FW great rail system, I beg to differ. You could not pay me to ride in this death trap thats called DART. Does anybody really know what D/FW stands for? My own interpretation is Different F***ing World. Also, as far as being rude, these people take the cake & smash it back in your face. This seems to be especially true when you tell them your from H-town. Hell, even the radio & T.V. stations have said that Houston is a toilet bowl. However, the Dallas paper seems to be the most biased, if any thing goes wrong or has some negative connotation that is linked to Houston...aren't you glad we live in Dallas it says. Well, I could go on and on but what's the point, one day I'll get back home. ------------------ A HOUSTONIAN lost in dallas
Agreed AJ. Used to live in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and that damn freeway took forever. It wasn't even finished when I moved, and it had been under construction for years. You're right about no turnarounds too. It's not as bad as Boston though. Boston has the least number of turnarounds I have seen. If you miss you're exit you are screwed. As far as the people in the area went, they were not friendly at all, but I can't blame them from my standpoint. I lived in a bad area of town where drugs and crime were abundant. Still, the people weren't that friendly overall and it's too damn hilly there! ------------------
If this ain't Springfield vs. Shelbyville I don't know what is. ------------------ The season's over, but the 'Stros have started. Guess I'm still gonna be nursing that keg...
So in which town do people marry their attractive cousins? ------------------ This space currently being renovated. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Well, I guess that would be Dallas. 'Course, that's why they beat us in football almost half the time. ------------------ The season's over, but the 'Stros have started. Guess I'm still gonna be nursing that keg...
Before I came to Texas, I wasn't too excited about living in Houston. I had this image of it as a dirty, hot, humid, ugly oil town. The reality was quite different, though, and it was quite a pleasant place to live. I heard about the Houston/Dallas rivalry, and it became a part of my thinking (there were some silly personal reasons involved). In all objectivity, Dallas seems to be more expensive, more full of chain restaurants, and less livable. The people seem friendly (what few I've talked to in random places). Houston people are relatively friendly too (though, coming from the Deep South, I used to think Texans were unfriendly and rude just because they didn't make easy conversation with everyone around them like Southerners often do). Here's a new debate, and one that should mean something to many on this board: what do you think of Houston vs. Austin? (I know they're not rival cities, but which one do you prefer and why?) I've gotten in this discussion (or started it) with a lot of people, and seem to be in the minority... ------------------ Isabel,clutchcity.net lurker since 1996 All your base are belong to Heypartner.
