Pippen-Houston at least puts effort in his defense... That's why I was gracious in labeling him as being decent... But the fact that he's not a great man-to-man defender adds to my point that TEAM DEFENSE and rotation can disguise weak man-to-man defenders... The Rockets seem to have weak man-to-man defenders, which only means that they should focus on playing a swarming half-court defense that forces the other team to pass a lot, thus making the shot clock their ally... The Knicks are masters at using the clock as a 6th man...
What makes you think our boys will apply themselves to swarming team defense if they can't even apply themselves to covering their man?
because swarming team defense - (ripley's) believe it or not - is easier than playing man to man defense.
Exactly Shandon... Common sense tells you that 2 players can defend 1 player better than 1 player defending 1 player... The key to this is being able to ROTATE quickly...
Buddies Kidrock and Verse: While I agree that during the course of a game swarming old-school Sonics type defense can be very effective, especially in terms of disrupting a team's offensive system and keeping offensive players out of rhythm/discouraged, at the end of games only great one-on-one defenders will give a team any chance of shutting down great offensive players. I do not believe that 2 players can always defend better than 1 b/c great players will always find a way to impose their will and dictate the action on 2 average defenders. Only a great defender can 1) effectively pressure the offensive player into high-difficulty shots and at the same time 2) limit the offensive player's passing options since everyone is man-to-man. As an example off the top of my head, I would rather have Aaron McKie guarding Carter alone in the closing seconds than have Jumaine Jones on him w/ Eric Snow doubling off Alvin Williams to help. Unfortunately, outside of Eddie Griffin maybe, I don't see any great defenders on our current roster. Just my 2pennies...
I don't buy this. First off, 24-high is a classic pick-n-roll with Shandon on the weakside. Isn't that what he did at Utah. Secondly, Utah had nowhere close to a "multiple passing" game that you describe. It was merely a pnr by a hall-of-fame tandem and probably the best pnr ever. Defenses had to over compensate just to stop the strong-side of that, so the weakside capitalized. Shandon couldn't do that with us because he couldn't shoot and the league learned how to stop his low post thing once they discovered that he exposes the ball for a strip on every move he makes. Thirdly, do you think Shandon we even start for Utah now...or exactly how many teams would he start for. All you are describing is how to get a bench role player involved. Don't make Shandon out to be some superstar defender who commands a starting role at the Shooting Guard position with less than average offense.
On most nights, Shandon Anderson was overmatched as a defender at the small forward spot. At 2 he made a decent defender, but, at three, he was adequate at best.
btw: I still would like to say that Mobley played as much SF as SG on the defensive end. Hell, do you realize he guarded Al Harrington and Francis covered Jalen Rose once we went down by 10 in the 4th in that 3ot....and played that way for 6 mins of the 4th and all 3 OTs. I swear, this notion that Anderson guarded SF exclusively is wrong. They kept Anderson on the shooting guards and had Mobley make the SFs play a mismatch game with him. That didn't always succeed, because the opponents would put their best defender of their SF and SG on Mobley. So, Mobley got as many if not more tall assignments, and was always being guarded by the best wing defender of the opponent. Saying Anderson got hurt by a mismatch merely shows that he couldn't hurt a mismatch, unless it was Iverson. Another thing I've noticed at games and sportsbars is when Mobley makes a good defensive play, nearly everyone says, "Great D Shandon." That's what a reputation does for you. Cling to it Shandon. You made $42m off of Stockton/Malone and your stopper reputation. You may have a rep, but you are not a starting shooting guard in the NBA.
I didn't see every game last year, crispee. But I know that in the several games I did see, Mobley didn't play alot of 3. And anyway it doesn't make sense to try to work a mismatch on defense - you do that offensively. Just because Cat defended an opposing SF (Glenn Robinson, for example), doesn't mean that Robinson's going to guard Cuttino on the other end (Allen would, or maybe Cassell). So I have no idea what you're talking about. Back when Anderson was effective in Utah, it wasn't by standing around weakside on the pick-and-roll. Hornacek did that, but not Anderson. Shandon was most effective cutting to the hoop, where Stockton would find him for easy layups or short jumpers. He was also a solid post-up player and a good wing man in the transition game. What happened to your love of transition, man? In Houston, every SF has the same role. Every single SF, be he Robert Horry or Shandon Anderson or Mario Elie or Scottie Pippen, is asked to stand around and shoot open jumpers off of penetration / passing out of double teams. Some guys thrive in that role, some wither. Shandon couldn't fill that void, but Rice should fit it to a 'T'. Fine. But there's no reason to think that Anderson can't be a competent complimentary offensive player in the right circumstance. He did just fine playing 2 guard for Houston just a year ago (how soon we forget: he shot 35% from 3 point land, 47% overall) - why in the world would he have lost those skills?
Mobley played 3 everytime Shandon sat down, and even more. Shandon playing more 3 than Mobley is a myth. Shandon guarding Vince is a myth. Shandon even sliding over to guard Kobe more than Mobley is a myth. Sammie....if you field 3 guards someone has to guard one of them...or you must sit down your SF. I didn't say a bunch of switches were happening, although they did at times. The best wing defender would guard Mobley or Francis (depending if Moochie was the 3rd guard or Shandon). Hell, Kobe would guard Francis sometimes. I never said Shandon stood aroud the weakside, and I would definitely not say Hornachek did, either. That statement that Hornachek did not drive and or give picks is a questionable. What I said was theirs was not a passing game. And I said Shandon's playoff effectiveness was largely limited to mismatches against short SGs in the West and bench players. Just because he did that role in Utah does not make him an NBA starter. I guess you are correct when you say that you didn't watch all the games last year . Ummmm. Walt Williams did not play the roles you describe, this year or last. We had several plays for him each 1st Q to get a shot. You merely describe the SFs who played with Hakeem who can't shoot on the run. That does not mean Rudy will use Rice that way, nor did he use Walt that way. Again, my main point is that Shandon didn't play SF to the degree people are saying. This is not why he was traded, because he was forced to play SF. He was traded because he is not starter material, and he doesn't want to play the bench role. There's such thing as the league learning how to defend a player. Shandon was a surprise role player hidden in Utah. As a starter, you get more tapes and learn how to stop him. He got stripped to an embarrassing degree this year. Why do you think Francis waved off Shandon? Because Shandon wasn't as good at low post as he thought. Defenders learned that he exposed the ball. At least something happened. He got stripped way to much to blame Francis for waving him off.
I notice that you didn't address my point about Shanderson having a good season in 99/2000 at all, except to state that he got stripped more often this season in post-ups. Well, the fact is those post ups were never a huge weapon. Like you said, he used them a few times with Utah during the playoffs against smaller guards, but it's hardly a primary weapon. Rice posts up. Even Sammy posts up against shrimpy guards. But none of those players rely on it as a go-to move. Shandon really was never much of a post-up threat as a Rocket, either year. But he did shoot well from outside in 99/00, judging by the numbers and by what I saw on the court. Oh, and I never said Shandon slid down to guard Kobe. But I'd love to see you produce some sort of evidence that Cat guarded the big small forwards: Marshall, Mason, Weatherspoon, etc. Al Harrington scored 7 points a game last season, so it's not like he was a tough cover. I'm not trying to downgrade Mobley by any means, I'm just saying that he plays his best defense on the ball, not off it, and he lacks even more bulk than Anderson does.
One more thing: Walt was terrible last season, too. Believe it or not, he was a worse offensive player than Anderson. And he did play alot of small forward last season, but his best position is power forward, where he is quicker than the opposition and is going against a guy who doesn't really want to defend a perimeter jump-shooter. And, he and MoTay are both given alot of creative liscence at the 4.
How do you figure that? Williams - 22 mins/8.3 ppg/3.4 rpg/39.4 fg%/39.5 3pt% Anderson - 29 mins/8.7 ppg/4.1 rpg/44.6 fg%/27.1 3pt% Williams was better in points per minute played, and they were about equal in rebounding per minute. Anderson shot a higher fg%, but simply because pretty much the only shots he makes are layups in transition. The majority or Walt's shots (48.3%) were three pointers, and the other half were mainly 15-20 footers coming around screens or off picks. Walt shot an excellent 40% from the arc, while Shandon just shot an abysmal 27%!...Didn't Walt always play SF last year? Since when has he ever been a PF?
SamCassell is one of the greatest to have a bball "discussion" with, especially when I can keep him from dipping into the stat sauce. Damn SmeggySmeg kept emailing me to respond to his pnr thread, so I gave him a big response, and he still hasn't responded. hmmmm, I wonder if this prelude to my response qualifies as cliquish... Sam, hopefully I didn't sound like I thought Mobley is a better defender. I just thought that it is a stretch to include SA in a No D at the 3 discussion, as much if not more than including Mobley. Neither of them are 3's and Mobley actually guarded more 3s anyhow. the rest is getting too off topic, and falling into the depths of statistical LaLa land.
Since when has Walt Williams ever been more suited to play the 4 than the 3? In my opinion, Shandon Anderson can't do a single thing better than Cuttino Mobley or Glen Rice, including defense. Why people thinks he played great defense is beyond me. Sometimes he was good, sometimes he wasn't. In other words, he was average. The same can be said about Mobley. Additionally, I think this team has a number of good one on one defenders. Francis' individual defensive growth last year really impressed me. It's true that he got beat for big games a couple of times. But not nearly as much as the year before. Additionally, Francis learned how to play the ball and the passing lanes much better and I was amazed how quickly he became one of the league leaders in steals. I expect his abilities in this aspect of the game will continue to improve until he plays the kind of scrappy one on one defense we see day in and day out from Allen Iverson. AS I already stated, I beleive Mobley plays average to above average defense. Glen Rice, believe it or not, knows how to use his size to his advantage when he can and his defense is not bad at all. Foul trouble aside, Mo Taylor's defense also wasn't horrible, and I expect to see it improve. Rudy will teach good team defense and rotation, making use of Griffen's long arms and, hopefully, a more motivated Cato. This team will be fine defensively, IMO. There will always be players on the other side of the ball who may beat you on an idividual basis on a given night. You just have to check the other players. And to top it all off, do people not realize that the Rockets were 10th last year in points allowed defense at 94.9 per game. For such a young team, this was very good in my opinion, a testament to RT's coaching behind doors. I expect big things from the Rockets this year
Here are the match ups in the Western Conference at the 3 versus Glen Rice and my opinion on who has the advantage. WESTERN CONFERENCE MATCHUPS LA's Rick Fox - better D and shut down some great 3's in the playoffs and average offense (edge LA) Portland's Scottie Pippen - better D again, mediocre offense and aging. (even) Phoenix's Shawn Marion - Too quick for Glen and leaps out of the gym. Doesn't understand the game yet (edge Phoenix) Seattle's Rashard Lewis - We fell asleep during draft time (Bryce Drew), Taller than Rice and plays average D (edge Seattle) Sacremento's Stoyo - Great O and below average D, younger version of Glen (definite edge to Sac) Clipper's Lamar Odom - No brainer, Great, Great O, getting better on D. Going to KILL Glen Rice (All the way Clips) MIDWEST CONFERENCE MATCHUPS Utah's Bryon Russell - Great D, O is shaky, will shut Rice down unless he's in a zone. (Utah slight advantage) Dallas's Do Dirty Dirk - If he plays the 3 with Finley at the two, it will be post up and score at will city. His D is horrible, however, he has you too worried about his O. (Dallas advantage) San Antonio's MIA - Who's the 3 with Elliot moving on, I think we have the advantage with an unknown. (advantage Rocks) Vancouver's Battier - Rookie, nothing else needs to be said, Glen will eat him up (advantage Rocks) Minnesota's Sczierbak (whatever) - Rice O is a little better and both of their D sucks (Advantage Rocks)
pippendagimp, name a single defender that can stop kobe, vince, tmac, or ANY great perimeter player when they are focused in. i'ma tell ya now, that person doesn't exist. you have to have help defense. i'm not suggesting double teams, as i abhor them. what i'm saying is that a rotating defense (read: soft weak side zone) is better than str8 up man to man defense. re: your carter comparison... if you have the opportunity to get the ball out of vince's hands and into alvin williams', you do it. no questions asked.
man532, have you been smoking some crack or do you really think that RIck Fox is better than Glen Rice?
