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NEXT GEN Gaming Console, PS5 and Xbox Series X news/upates

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by noize, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    Looking at the infinite contrast of an OLED in an electronics store has burned my retinas and made me unable to judge TV quality, hence why everything should be taken with a grain of salt. :oops:
     
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  2. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    Right now, only the Xbox Series X/S has variable refresh rates. The PS5 supposedly can do that....but it has to be patch in.

    The Xbox Series S will target 1440p/60 fps. It can't do 4k gaming.

    The Xbox Series X will target 4K-60 fps. The PS5 will at least try to do the same. PS5 dev tools are further along because Microsoft finalized its hardware later because they wanted full RDNA 2 support from AMD. That will make a difference as the Dev. tools get better and mature. PS5 fanboys have been saying "see, launch cross-platform games run better on the PS5". This about about the time Developers have had with the Xbox Dev. hardware. Give it time...

    The Series X is more powerful...based on Specs alone (since certain people love specs), so it will be able to do 4K, 60 fps with Ray Tracing with no issues (once tools mature). There may be a game or 2 that push the hardware fully...and may force 4k-30fps. The PS5 should be able to do the same in most games, depending on the Developer. However, there will be games where PS5 developers will probably have to choose between 4k-60 fps vs slightly lower resolution 60 fps vs 4k-30 fps. The GPU on the Xbox Series X will eventually be the difference vs. the faster SSD on the PS5.

    However, we shall see.
     
  3. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    That's absolute bollocks and shows you don't understand the hardware specs.
     
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  4. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    Tell me what I don't understand? Developers implementation matters...but raw specs...the XBX is more powerful.

    Oh really? 12 Teraflops vs 10.28 Teraflops for the GPU. That is more powerful. RDNA 2 vs RDNA 1.5. We don't know exact why MS waiting for that.....but we will find out.

    PS5 SSD is faster than the XBX.

    The variable freq. of the PS5 CPU is means it will run slower that the listed clock much of the time. Same with the GPU.

    The hardware on both of these is very similar....but there are differences.

    Again, it will take a couple of years before we start to see the full potential of both machines.


    [​IMG]
     
  5. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    I have literally zero idea why you're coming up with a XSX vs PS5 comparison now.

    All I'm saying is you have no grasp of hardware if you think these two consoles are capable of running 4k/60fps + Ray tracing comfortably.
     
  6. RC Cola

    RC Cola Contributing Member

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    O RLY? :)

    https://www.engadget.com/ori-and-the-will-of-the-wisps-xbox-series-s-4k-series-x-195541223.html
    I think there might be some other games it can run at 4K too, though I'm guessing it will be a small list.

    I realize MS designed it to target 1440p/60 FPS based on whatever data they had. I'm just saying that if PS5 and XSX end up targeting 1440p due to better gains elsewhere, doesn't it seem likely that XSS won't be able to easily target 1440p as well?

    I don't necessarily disagree with this, but I'm asking if you think this is likely and for the best.

    Ray tracing isn't just one effect. It is a wide spectrum of things. Reflections, lighting (global, direct vs indirect, etc.), shadows, and even sound can utilize ray tracing. A game can enable ray tracing for some of these effects, but not enable it for others. Even if it is enabled for something like reflections, the fidelity can be tweaked. Watch this DF analysis of Spider-man for example (mostly when they talk about how they did the performance RT mode):

    This mode and the 4K RT mode both use RT, but with different fidelity (presence of shadows in reflections, resolution of reflections, how many objects being reflected, animation refresh rate, etc.).

    I don't think the XSX with mature tools can achieve full RT (of super high fidelity) for every effect at 4K/60 FPS. I'm asking do you think it might be a better trade-off to reduce resolution to say 1440p, increase RT fidelity, and maybe even improve other effects. If the answer is yes (which is what I'd say), then that implies XSS might have difficulties running the same scenes at 1440p. Which is the point I was making.

    As I keep saying, this resolution stuff is kinda silly to argue. PS3 did 1080p/60 FPS at launch IIRC, but that didn't mean it was great for every game (hell PS3 struggled with 720p/30 FPS most of the time). Last-gen consoles I think have some cases where they push out 4K (definitely the "pro" models, but maybe even the base models). XSS can do 4K, let alone 1440p, but I'm not thinking either resolution would be best for most games. Of course, it probably won't matter much. 1080p with great visuals (especially good AA) can still look really good (though XSX/PS5 version will likely look better of course...even if they run at 1440p instead of 4K). Maybe that should just be the takeaway with the XSS. It has just as fast of a CPU and SSD, but whatever resolutions and GPU effects XSX uses, XSS will have to (greatly?) reduce them to run properly. XSS = 0.75 XSX or something. :)
     
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  7. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    Um..You do realize there is different levels of Ray Tracing? But.....
    https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7398...ps-with-ray-tracing-on-xbox-series/index.html

    Atleast one game can do it. I probably shouldn't have said it will be easy for most developers. However, it can be done.
     
  8. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    Racing games are incredibly spec-friendly due to their make-up of the world, so maybe that will indeed happen.

    My beef was with you saying XSX will be able to run 4k/60+Ray tracing with no issues, which sounded like you meant it will be a standard.

    XSX and PS5 will struggle with consistent 4k/60 for AAA titles as it is, and that is without ray tracing and already reduced graphics.
     
  9. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    Developers have been scaling games for various PC setups forever. It is basically the same thing. Scale up for the X, Scale down for the S. 1440p/60 fps should be the goal for the S.

    60 fps is more important than the highest res. graphics (imho). Some developers will do 4k at 30fps because because they want the hi-fidelity over fps. The RDNA 2 support that MS waited for on their chip is supposed to help visual fidelity, while reducing the cpu/gpu hit. That is why the maturing of the GDK will be important to take advantage of that.

    https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/10...s-xs-integrates-full-amd-rdna-2-architecture/

    Give developers time and we will see where it goes. However, both the S and X will benefit.
     
  10. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    We don't know...especially with the XBX...what will be the consistent resolution/fps/features at the moment. That GDK is important to determine that. Since MS was very late in getting that to the developers, It will probably take 6 months to a year to fully see what people can do with it. It was a good thing that they pushed Halo to the Fall of 2021.
     
  11. Beezy

    Beezy Member

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    The next gen version of Control will have ray tracing on both consoles... at 30 FPS. Peformance mode with no raytracing will run at 60 FPS.
     
  12. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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  13. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    @tinman
    Target drop: December 20th at 3am EST. PS5 and Xbox Series X.

    Series S is live now on GameStop.com if anyone is interested.
     
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  14. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    LOL. Conn's will have a PS5 bundle on sale at Select stores tomorrow morning at 8am (local time). It is the PS5, 2 games, and an extra controller. They announced this on Twitter. Price? $1200. A retailer has become a scalper...LOL. The backlash was HUGE, so they removed the price from the twitter ad. LOL

     
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  15. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    @tinman A rumored Amazon drop in the around midnight.
     
  16. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Too much craziness to avoid the scalpers
     
  17. VanityHalfBlack

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    Yes yes yes!! Oh God please let there be blood shed!! I wanna see more of this!! Civilization coming to an end hell yeah!!
     
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  18. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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    Damn. Them 2 bishes belong in a cage. I felt good for the girl in the hoodie for prevailing against the **** talker, but then those stomps came in at the end and I cringed
     
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  19. RC Cola

    RC Cola Contributing Member

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    Sorry I didn't get a chance to respond to things yesterday, but I'm here now. :)

    All good, but I'd like to go back to my original question instead of focusing on random specs. :)

    Put it another way. Would you prefer a XSX game at 4K/30 FPS (or even 60 FPS) with no ray tracing or 1440p/60 FPS with ray tracing (let's say for reflections ala Spider-man)? Or put yet another way, would you prefer 4K or ray tracing in your game? You can only have one. I could probably think of a few other variants of this.

    As I said earlier (and I think Yung-T did as well), neither console can do "full" ray-tracing at 4K, especially at 60 FPS. I'm not even sure a 3090 RTX can (at least not with SUPER heavy RT, though I guess DLSS helps). I like 4K, but I like ray tracing more I think. IMO 1440p is a better target for XSX/PS5 for most games, assuming they can add some ray tracing and/or add other stuff. Just wondering if you disagree with that assessment, and if so, why?

    We'll see what the developers do, but I'm thinking they're trying to figure this all out too. It isn't so much a technical equation as much as what do people actually like and prefer.

    No idea how things actually went, but I'm guessing Insomniac originally didn't think gamers would appreciate a PS5 game that dipped as low as 1080p (with dynamic res scaling), even if it had RT and ran at 60 FPS. But I think a lot of gamers were begging for a RT mode running at 60 FPS, even if it meant running at 1080p (not even dynamic res), so they gave it a shot and the results turned out to be pretty nice. I guess Demon's Souls is a bit similar. I don't anyone is bothering to play it in the 4K mode, and yet people think it is probably the best looking next-gen game. I'm wondering if this will be a trend moving forward. Quit worrying about pushing for 4K and higher resolutions and focus on frame-rate + higher fidelity.
     
  20. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    Forza will be able to do 4k, 60fps with ray tracing. MS design their system to be able to hi-fidelity gaming. That’s why the GDK maturing is so important. As developers improve their understanding of the X, more games will be able do full-res without compromise. People who say “PC can’t do that “ fail to understand that consoles can optimize because there are set specs you are developing for. You don’t have to worry about different systems/hardware for compatibility. It allows for focus.

    60 fps is the most important for any game. However that is achieved, is the preference.

    The XBX spec advantage and RDNA2 support will eventually show the difference in the ability to do 4k, 60fps...with ray tracing in a variety of games.

    Marathon, not a sprint.
     
    #1440 Mr.Scarface, Dec 19, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020

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