Newsweek deserving of apology? Pentagon Confirms Koran Incidents

T_J i cannot even begin to have a discussion with you. You will never listen to the arguments I could give you.
not everything that happens is to bash Bush. tell me these two things:
Do you aprove of torturing people (when you think they can be terrorists)?
Do you feel that your culture is better then that of others?

 

If it's not Love
Then it's the Bomb
Then it's the Bomb
That will bring us together

 

Piss Christ


Andres Serrano, 1987
By Andrew Hudgins
Posted Wednesday, April 19, 2000, at 12:00 AM PT

If we did not know it was cow's blood and urine,
if we did not know that Serrano had for weeks
hoarded his urine in a plastic vat,
if we did not know the cross was gimcrack plastic,
we would assume it was too beautiful.
We would assume it was the resurrection,
glory, Christ transformed to light by light
because the blood and urine burn like a halo,
and light, as always, light makes it beautiful.

We are born between the urine and the feces,
Augustine says, and so was Christ, if there was a Christ,
skidding into this world as we do
on a tide of blood and urine. Blood, feces, urine�
what the fallen world is made of, and what we make.
He peed, ejaculated, shat, wept, bled�
bled under Pontius Pilate, and I assume
the mutilated god, the criminal
humiliated god, voided himself
on the cross and the blood and urine smeared his legs
and he ascended bodily unto heaven,
and on the third day he rose into glory, which
is what we see here, the Piss Christ in glowing blood:
the whole irreducible point of the faith,
God thrown in human waste, submerged and shining.

We have grown used to beauty without horror.

We have grown used to useless beauty.





the blasphemy is that andres is a bad artist who got way too much publicity via helms et al. acts in and of themselves are not what carry the power, it's the ideas behind them. all the terrorists have is their ideas, they cannot not fight us mano a mano via conventional means. desecrating the koran fuels their ideas, gives them more ammo, that is the problem.

 

So, we have 5 cases where our troops "abused" the Koran, and 15 where those who supposedly find it sacred abused it. It looks like our troops are being more respectful than the detainees. Here's an idea. If the Muslim world is so worried that an American will "abuse" the Koran, how about just not giving them out to detainees?

 

After reading that Piss Christ poem, I am going into the streets with my buddies to chant and shoot guns into the air. Then I will accidentally kill some people, because thats why the Bible tells me to do.

Oh wait, no it doesn't.

 

I fully support torturing terrorists.

I believe that democracy and freedom is superior to theocracy and oppression (which is what the Muslims do -- especially to women).

 

You shouldn't over generalize Muslims. The largest Muslim nation in the world has had a female president. Can you say the same about the U.S.? You might be referring to some of the regimes in the middle east, though. But your overgeneralizations belies what many in the Islamic world are doing.

 

Actually, the 4 largest Muslim countries in the world have each had at least one female president or prime minister in the last 10 years.

 

so I take it that the pro-defacement crowd here thinks that burning a flag is just burning some cloth?

 

Bangladesh's PM is Khaleda Zia. Pakistan's PM in the 90's was Benazir Bhutto. I don't know too many 2nd class citizens who are elected as world leaders.

Bottom line, if we intend to "win the hearts and minds" of the Muslim world, we better show some f*cking respect. The radicals' hatred of the US is growing every day, and incidents like this just perpetuate the sterotype that the US is insensitive to other cultures.

 

I don't support defacing other religions' symbols, but to say that the US is not showing "f*cking respect" is simply an ignorant statement. What's even more ignorant is assuming that a few military peoples' actions are representative of the entire US (ie a few military people kicking Qu'rans). That's stupid. We're giving these low lifes their holy book, a prayer mat, calls to prayer and the direction of Mecca. In my view that's a hell of a lot more than they deserve. We're bending over backwards to accomodate their religious needs. To say that we're not showing "f*cking respect" is simply ignorant and stupid. Baqui give me a break.

We're playing right into the terrorists hands (see my other thread). With the American liberals' help, they are using this issue to turn people against us.

 

Yea because there's a PRO-defacement crowd . We're just saying that we don't see the big deal about it. We're not all gung ho shouting slogans calling for the abuse of the Koran we're just saying that it's not a huge deal.

 

I fully support torturing terrorists. TJ

This is getting silly.

I suppose you fully support others torturing terrorists on your behalf.

Tough talk from a guy who won't go vountarily to fight in a war he claims to believe in.

 

Just because you believe in a war doesn't mean that you have to volunteer to go fight it. That's just an ignorant viewpoint. I have the greatest respect for our soldiers but to say that someone is a hypocrite if they don't volunteer to fight is just plain stupid.

 

Actually the "liberals" do, if you have heard of such "liberal" outfits as human rights organizations all over the world.

 

Was the poem written by a Muslim? Or am I missing something? Did a Muslim piss on the Bible or call Jesus "gay"?

 

Actually, it is not just "other" cultures, it is Muslims living in this VERY country who are Americans and serving in our military and teaching in our schools and are doctors and lawyers and government officials. Muslims ARE part of American society, the second largest religious group in America behind Christians. Their symbols and what they hold holy must be respected by the government, but not endorsed. All religious beliefs in this country must be respected by our government and not discriminated against, while at the same time not endorsed by the state.

The sad part is that many Americans don't understand that concept, they think that being a "Muslim" or a "Jew" means you are not a "real" American. Some people are unaware that Muslims and Jews are their neighbors, and not some "nationality" that can be pinned down to a specific state.

I think people like Trader_J are either unaware of this or just don't care about their fellow citizens, I wonder if he even considers "liberals" as fellow Americans or not.

But sadly, that has become the hallmark of conservatism in America: intolerance, ignorance, and blind patriotism. I used to be a conservative voter (I still am a traditional conservative on many issues), but now I've been completely alienated by the people who have taken over the conservative cause and have given it a bad name

 

The US has bent over backwards to show these savages respect, and one little alleged slip-up and you've got liberals attempting to de-legitimize the entire US military's actions by saying that the servicemen are not respecting a religion. What a crock. Just lunacy from people who are looking for any way to make the US military look bad. I guess the libs just have egg on their face from losing a political debate and this is their way of fighting back -- by attacking the troops' actions. Look, no terrorist deserves an ounce of respect, be they Muslim or not. Maybe the Muslims ought to take it upon themselves to clean up their act (and the act of those that share their religion), otherwise they really shouldn't be offended when others look down on the behavior of their own. When you have millions of Muslims rooting for terror, then something has gone astray institutionally.

Oh, and to claim that a few countries have had a female PM and thereby justify Islam's treatment of women is a total joke. When women aren't allowed on the street and must wear a ridiculous face-to-toe covering, then something has just gone kooky wild wrong.

 

Agree. I don't think that actions of a few (including, sadly, our current government heads) should bring a bad name to Americans in general. That's unfair and just absurd.

Sadly, my friend, that has been accomplished a loooooong time ago, the world is not waiting to hear stories like this to hate us, people can't stand us anymore, when they used to at least like us a bit, and if not like us at least be neutral about it and not hate us.

 

Really? It is not a sign of political empowerment of women? That's a nice spin

As for the "face-to-toe covering", LOL! That just tells me you know absolutely NOTHING about the Muslim world in general. You are wholly buying into the stereotype you see in the media/movies/on your TV screens.

Oh, and the simple fact that you "look down upon" Islam as a religion is not an insult, but rather a resounding approval