Newell taunting Ming: "I defy anyone" to say Foreign Centers Match Up

Who are these "better centers"?

 

Was Patrick Ewing from Jamaica? Mutumbo, Olajuwon, Divac, Olawokandi, Sabonis, Nesterovic, Potapenko...hmm - who are these US centers? David Robinson - the little mermaid? Vin Baker? Tony Battie? Who's your developed US poster boy? You could say Duncan - if he'd admit he's a center - but then he's from the virgin islands, too. Doesn't look like US high school and playgrounds have a lock on player development. There is Shaq, but he was hardly a model of big man camp skills when he broke in the league. You don't see many big men who can play the pivot
anymore - everyone seems to wuss out and face the basket.

 

Hakeem would have something to say about that. It's silly to say that just because it hasn't really happened on a larger scale it won't ever happen, because the true barrage of foreign players has just began. In fact Duncan is a foreign player. I mean there are barely quality centers NOW! The only really good quality American centers I see right now are Shaq and Zo.

 

Hakeem & Ewing are products of the American College basketball system.

 

I read this earlier today and my first thought was Sabonis. Even after he was completely shot, he was still one of the better centers in the league.

I was also confused because he said something about Shaq being the only good center in the last 10 years...does that mean playing in the last 10 years or drafted? Either way, that is wrong.

If not drafted, just played, the answers are obvious.

If drafted, I think Mourning and Duncan are pretty good. Maybe he has not heard of them? Kandi is a traditional center who is decent...but still traditional.

In an extension of the Kiki question...why is Mike Dunleavy in the damn camp? Does he think he is going to play in the post much?

 

He is correct the traditional Center is a dying breed. The only true Center left is Shaq. The new breed is a cross between a Center and Small Forward. That is why I keep on saying don't expect Yao ( Ming is his first name) to be a banger type of Center he is of the'New Breed' and could be the finest example so far. Foreign Centers will now fit into this position because of their all round skills.

 

If you adopt all the foreign players because of a couple of years of American training, then of course the US will be favorable in comparison. What if Dream did 2 years of college in Africa and 2 in the States, would he be an American center? Would a player from Africa who played 3 seasons in the NBA become an American player the same way Olajuwon became an American player because of 3 years in college? What if an American-born center went to play in Europe instead of going to an American college and then returned to play in the NBA: can Europe adopt centers as easily as the US can?

If it is meaningful at all to think of centers as domestic or foreign, than you must go by their nationality, not the country in which they attended college. And, by that reckoning, the only American centers worth a damn are O'Neal, Robinson, Mourning and Duncan (since he is from a US colony -- uhh... "territory"). With Olajuwon, Mutumbo, Divac, Sabonis, Ewing, etc, etc, the foreigners pretty much mop the floor with the Americans.

 

I see this as Newell just creating more propoganda for his camp.

The article starts with a quote of: "Today in the NBA we have one center that qualifies for the MVP or the Hall of Fame, in the last 10 years, Shaquille (O'Neal) is the only one," Newell said. "Take Shaquille out of the mix, and you don't have a center.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that, unless Duncan becomes a center, and of course allow for possibilities of the youngsters just drafted.

Later, Newell says-"I defy anyone to tell me a center that comes from foreign basketball, to this point, and has proved themselves to even coming close to our better centers," Newell said.

We've established that the current center crop is pretty poor...so are we comparing the foreign guys to the only "better" center aka Shaq? Or, if we take a look at the crop as a whole, a healthy Ilgauskas, or Sabonis is certainly among the better centers. Heck, even Nesterovic and Tsakalidis are above average centers right now. If you look at the draft, the top 2 center prospects picked this year come from overseas (Ming/Hilario). I think our Memphis fans mentioned Gasol is being groomed to become a center.

The whole "foreign invasion" phase is pretty new. I think as some of these overseas players develop, you'll see some of them reach the upper echelons.

 

edit: rimmy already beat me to this point... didn't see it.

 

Do you think Mourning, had he not gotten sick, could have had a hall of fame worthy carreer? He was a guaranteed 20, 10, and 3 bpg guy - and was actually maturing a great deal - which would have translated into better numbers.

Do you really consider Duncan not to be a HOF caliber center?

I realize he is correct that that is fairly limited, but tat makes 3 upper tier centers coming out in the last 10 years. If Curry develops, won't he beconsidered a traditional big man? If Kandi develops, won't he as well? I realize these are ig "ifs" but they are still in training. More will come like them, as well.

Was Kareem realy a traditional center, anyway? He seems more like this finesse SF/C type people are talking about now.

Russell would be a PF in the NBA of the last 20 years.

 

heypartner,

How can this be marketing for his camp if by his own admission Shaq is the only HOF center of the past ten years and Newell has been running his Big Man camp for years? If it was just a coaching issue, couldn't Newell help at least a few more make the jump into near HOF status? If it is something more along the lines of some unique ability beyond College & NBA coaching (and Newell Big Man camp) that defines HOF center status, then how can Euro coaching be faulted?

 

imo, what defines a true center is the ability to play back to the basket as a primary weapon.

rimmy,

jabbar was NOT a sf/c type of center. not even close. he was pure center, yet finesse in his manner. there's nothing overly physical about lofting sky hooks from 3-12 feet from the rim. but it IS a back to the basket move. kareem may have faced the basket 3 times a game...and he shot jump shots less than that.

 

Uh, no mention of our dear Kelvin Cato in the article. Is he not going? Was he considered not worth mentioning? Is there another camp he went to that I've missed?

I thought so. So goes the myth of Kelvin and the Camp.
I hope I'm wrong.

(I agree with verse. Kareem was a pure center in spades. IMHO.)

 

verse,

You are right, he was a back-to-the basket guy...but I don't think he is the same as Russell, Wilt, & Shaq - so not the same. But you are right, he is not really a SF/C guy...I just threw that out there without thinking. But I meant that he was not the same as the others listed. He was a finesse center - he was speed, agility, and a "shooter" as opposed to a bruiser, pound it in, player.

Hakeem was a little of both.

 

rimmy,

no prob. i just didn't want people mistaking jabbar's game for dirk nowitski's....

as for cato and the big man camp...he has gone to no camp. in fact, he's out of shape right now.