best information i've seen so far...only 2 states, new jersey and california, allow real demonstrations on the grounds of the mall...the rest only make it necessary for the malls to open their doors for petitions to get someone on a ballot or for voter registration...those sorts of activities. http://shoppingcenterworld.com/ar/retail_freedom_speech_mall/ Four States Provide Limited Access Rights However, most state Supreme Courts have not followed the examples of California and New Jersey. Four states, for example, have adopted positions in the middle. Three of these states, Massachusetts, Oregon, and Washington, have identified certain types of speech entitled to more protection than other types. "These states have said that speech related to registering voters and obtaining signatures to get a candidate or an issue on the ballot have protection," Schiller says. "On the other hand, although groups seeking to pass out flyers related to political issues such as gun control or abortion rights do have free speech rights, those rights do not rise to the level of overcoming the private property rights of a shopping center owner." A fourth state, Colorado, has found a different sort of middle ground. "Some centers in Colorado have been developed in part with public money from redevelopment authorities," Schiller says. "Colorado Courts have made fine distinctions in cases concerning those centers, sometimes, but not always, finding access rights where public money has been used." According to Schiller, the remaining states fall into two broad categories. Twenty-some states have examined the issue and decided that their constitutions do no protect public access rights on private property.
damn, max and others, we've done all the research for a good college term paper. Maybe we can upload it to a site and charge for it.
No no no no no. Haven't you learned anything about the American way glynch????? . We find a convenient plaintiff(s), some deep pocket defendants, and we go for a class action. Then we'll all be sittin' in the FRRRRROOOOONT ROOOOWWW (maybe we can get the plaintiff class some coupons or something).
Surprise, surprise; seems like some rather important details were left out of the press accounts of the incident. According to the arrest report (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/crossgates1.html)the security guards had received complaints that Downs and his "partner" (actually his son, according to the Times-Union) "were stopping other shoppers." The security guard's deposition (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/crossgates2.html) says that a customer had complained "that the two gentlemen were having a verbal dispute with another group of individuals in the mall. The customer was afraid of what may come out of the dispute, so she wanted to let someone know."
and the next day...at the rally in support of these guys...there was a fight...illustrating again my concerns for this...can't wait to see how long it takes for someone to try to sue the mall for them getting hurt at the protest.
Well, if they were in fact harassing other customers, I feel the mall was well within their rights to ask them to leave.
How about reimbursement in the form of: Large tax breaks so they can put businesses fronting public properties (where freedom of speech is protected) out of business. Changes to city zoning codes so they don't have to plant expensive trees in their vast parking lots. Free extension of city utilities to their remote building sites.
Did you notice in the article in today's Chronicle that the shirts were "custom made?" Based on the article and the affidavits referred to in MadMax's post, I would like to retract my prior statement about the security guards and owner of the mall being stupid. I jumped to conclusions based on the misleading initial news reports. Got me. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/nation/1808087 March 6, 2003, 8:35PM Antiwar T-shirt case comes to peaceful end Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle News Services ALBANY, N.Y. -- The owner of a shopping mall where a lawyer was arrested this week after refusing to take off a T-shirt advocating peace opted Thursday to drop trespassing charges against him. Stephen Downs, 61, was detained Monday after security guards at the Crossgates Mall near Albany, N.Y., ordered him to take off his shirt that read "Give Peace A Chance" and "Peace on Earth" or leave the mall. When he refused, security guards called local police, who handcuffed Downs, arrested him and held him for two hours. The mall owner has changed its mind, and the charges will be dropped, Guilderland, N.Y., Police Chief James Murley said Thursday. "This is a no-win situation," the police chief said. Downs, a lawyer who works for the state, and his son Roger, 31, said they went to a Crossgates Mall store to pick up the custom-made T-shirts. The elder Downs had the words "Give Peace a Chance" printed on the back of his shirt. His son's shirt read "No War With Iraq" and "Let Inspections Work." They said they decided to wear the T-shirts over their turtlenecks, and headed to the food court to have dinner. Soon afterward, they said, security guards approached them while they were eating and requested that they take off the shirts. The son complied, but the father did not. He was arrested by the local police and charged with trespassing. In a written statement Wednesday, Tim Kelley, director of operations for Pyramid Mall Management, which owns Crossgates Mall, said that security guards were responding to a complaint about Downs and his son. "Their behavior, coupled with their clothing, to express to others their personal views on world affairs were disruptive of customers," he wrote. But Kelley did not say who made the complaint, or what the disruptive behavior was. Roger Downs denied that he and his father had acted in a disruptive manner, saying that they did not pass out any fliers and spoke only to two people who approached them to compliment them on their T-shirts. News of Stephen Downs' arrest struck a chord of outrage among antiwar demonstrators and civil libertarians. On Wednesday, more than 150 people wearing T-shirts with antiwar slogans converged on Crossgates Mall to show support for Downs. The organizers said that one man was punched by a bystander who shouted, "Remember 9/11!" No arrests were reported. Though shopping malls are public gathering places, courts have ruled that they are privately owned companies that have a legal right to remove people who are disrupting their business. The New York Times and Reuters contributed to this report.
They were bothering other customers but the guards just asked them to take off their shirts? That makes no sense at all. Two men walking in a man get threatened with arrest but 100 protesters don't? A guy gets arrested for wearing a shirt but someone who punches another person doesn't get arrested? None of this makes any sense.
Burn Down The Malls Lyrics by Mojo Nixon Burn down the malls Burn down the malls Burn down the shoppin' malls I said Burn down the malls said burn down the shoppin' malls burna burna burna burna down shoppin' maaalls Hey you ever get the feelin that America is turning into some kinda sit-com? lowest common denominator shopping mall marketing strategy from hell? You ever get that feeling? Well I got that feeling right now and it's kinda getting under my skin yeah so get some gas-o-line and Burn down the malls SAY IT Burn down the malls LOUDER Burn down the malls You know it just started out as a kind of corner store Then it turned into a shopping center Oh I remember the shoppin' center openings man they used to have those big lights shinin' up but now... Now, where do the old folks go? Where do the young kids go? What's America, what's America turning into? Mondo-condo-shopping-mall-hell I say Burn down the malls Burn down the malls Burn down the malls Nero had the right idea- fiddle while you burn... Now another thing is kinda gettin' on my nerves... another thing that's kinda gettin' on my nerves is this national 21 drinking age Huh? what do ya think about that? A bunch of malarky whatever malarky is man it's a whole bunch of it.. you know if Reagan finally gets the war he's lookin for you think he's gonna be draftin' 21 year olds? No man they're gonna be draftin' 18 and 19 year olds but ya cant buy beer you can get married and screw yourself up real good but ya can't buy beer ya can charge 8 million dollars on the mastercharge but ya can't buy beer you can vote for one fool or another but ya can't buy beer 'cause this is America America that's run by the lowest common denominator the money how many units did ya move Mojo? how many things of apple juice did ya sell? c'mon suckers- c'mon feel it Burn down the malls Burn down the malls Burn down the malls Alright all you weirdo's out there all you moralistic twisted evil little icepickers you say "we wanna censor rock and roll" we wanna decide what you read what you watch what you listen to ooo ooo ooo Mr. Falwell oooh Miss Tipper Gore wait till i got you on the floor we gonna tie you up inside of a shopping mall then we're gonna then we're gonna we're gonna have a war on drugs a war on drugs we outta have a war on war you suckers we outta have a war on this senseless condominium new car helllll Burn down the malls Burn down the malls Burn down the malls
