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New Voter Law (elections reforms)?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    And you don't spam us with right wing propaganda??? Yeah, sure.

    I love the selecting of bill that's did not pass while completely ignoring the ones that did pass:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/04/politics/voting-laws-restrictive-map-october/index.html

    Even if you want to argue about the minutia of the laws that allow the partisan state reps to LITERALLY overturn the results in the case of fraud (which is written in a way to be a bit obtuse), what about all of the restrictions put into place in order to limit things like polling locations, the ability to mail in ballots, new bizarre voter ID rules, etc. etc?

    This all comes on the backdrop of what happened in 2020 where state Republicans literally send fraudulent slates of electors, the sitting president told a state election official to "find 11,971 votes", the GOP plotted a coup to use the 12th amendment to vote in Trump with the House, and in which that coincided with a violent mob attacking police officers at the Capital.

    This whole narrative you are spinning that the Democrats are being hyperbolic and not truthful about Republicans ELECTION PURITY is a bunch of bullsh$t. I would ask you how you are not ashamed of yourself for posting this kind of junk but apparently you have none.
     
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  2. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
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    More americans care about Uyghurs than voter reform at this point. Maybe the administration can get the american people unified on this.
     
  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    "by the liberal Brennan Center for Justice."
     
  4. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    You speak for all Americans? Even if let's say only 20 to 30% of Americans know and can prove that their votes are being disenfranchised in their states are we really a Democracy if 20 to 30% of voters votes don't matter because the majority of peoples votes do still matter....??? So they don't care and instead spend their time whining about things like the national anthem at sporting events and white guilt?

    The reality is if we do not have a Democracy here in the US, then all of our global efforts to help in other regions are moot. We'll have no credibility to create change, and autocrats like Putin and Xi will have our corruption, and anti-democratic leadership to use as propaganda to their people and the world community to avoid the pressure for them to make any changes.

    Since we are a country that literally had slaves for hundreds of years, and still to this day treats them as second class citizens, how do you think that plays when we try to preach to the world about building a coalition to free the Uyghurs from oppression???

    I mean have an ounce of perspective here man. Geezus.
     
  5. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Literally the first line is "By the Editorial Board" of the Wall Street Journal, and then you have the gall to claim that this was an opinion written by a Liberal think tank??? Boy you really are just a lying troll.
     
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  6. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
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    Where are you finding this 20-30% number?
     
  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ra...r-turnout-11642539202?mod=opinion_featst_pos1

    The Racial Progress Democrats Won’t Admit
    Biden makes an ugly appeal to fear as black voter-registration and turnout keep climbing.
    By Jason L. Riley
    Jan. 18, 2022 6:17 pm ET

    President Biden has spent the better part of his first year in office insisting he wants to steer the country in a less racially divisive direction. Last week he took it all back. When you invoke Bull Connor, Jefferson Davis, George Wallace and the Ku Klux Klan to describe your political opponents, your objective isn’t racial harmony but something closer to the opposite. Maybe we should thank him for finally coming clean.

    With the White House struggling to advance its economic agenda, the president’s job-approval rating stuck in the mud, and midterm elections looming, it’s no great shock that Mr. Biden is resorting to racial demagoguery. The Democratic Party has long depended on keeping black people scared and paranoid to maintain their support. That’s how its activists raise money and how its candidates typically turn out the base. For many on the political left, racial progress is something to be played down or ignored altogether, and nothing seems to inconvenience them more than the incredible strides America has made in recent decades on voting rights.

    You would never know it from listening to Mr. Biden’s nasty tirade in Atlanta, but black voter turnout has been rising since the mid-1990s even as more states have passed voting requirements that the president and his backers insist are “Jim Crow 2.0.” Nationally, the black voter-turnout rate exceeded white turnout for the first time in 2008, when President Obama was elected. It happened again when Mr. Obama was re-elected in 2012, prompting the Census Bureau to note that the “increase in voting among blacks continues what has been a long-term trend.” True, black turnout dipped in 2016, but only to the pre-Obama level. And the decline almost certainly reflected apathy toward Hillary Clinton more than any efforts to disenfranchise blacks. Two years later, “all major racial and ethnic groups saw historic jumps in voter turnout,” according to a Pew Research Center analysis.

    In 2020, Asian and Hispanic voting levels made history again, while black turnout was the third-highest on record for a presidential election. When minority voters are sufficiently motivated, they seem to have no trouble casting a ballot. And when asked their views on voter-ID laws—as they were in surveys conducted last year by National Public Radio, Monmouth University, Rasmussen and others—large majorities of respondents, regardless of race or political affiliation, expressed support.

    Democrats and voting-rights activists aren’t unaware of these facts but hush up about them so as not to undercut the voter-suppression story line. Liberals who complained aboutDonald Trump’s relentless demagoguery on such issues as illegal immigration are giving Mr. Biden a pass because their criticisms of Mr. Trump were based on political expediency, not principle.

    The positive national trends in black voter turnout are reflected in state data as well, including Dixie states, where most blacks live and where black voting rights historically met the most resistance. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation voter database, which compiles census figures, black voter registration in the South is higher than in other regions of the country and sometimes higher than the corresponding white rate. In 2020, for example, black registration surpassed white registration in Maryland, Mississippi and Tennessee, and the black-white difference was less than three percentage points in Florida, Kentucky, Louisiana, North Carolina and Texas.

    Turnout numbers tell a similar story. In 2020 blacks voted at higher rates than whites in Maryland, Missouri, Mississippi and Tennessee. After losing the Georgia governor’s race in 2018, Stacey Abrams founded an organization to fight voter suppression and subsequently has become the progressive face of the cause. Yet by 2018 black voter registration and turnout rates in the Peach State surpassed those of whites. Her organization is a solution in search of a problem.

    Democrats continue to assert, as Mr. Biden did in his Atlanta speech, that in 2013 the Supreme Court weakened the 1965 Voting Rights Act to the detriment of blacks when it ruled that federal oversight of voting protocols in states with a history of voter suppression could no longer be justified. The oversight, always meant to be temporary, was based on decades-old data, and the court concluded that times had changed. “There is no denying,” Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in the majority opinion, “that the conditions that originally justified these measures no longer characterize voting in the covered jurisdictions.”

    Since that ruling, black registration and overall voter turnout have continued to improve, yet Democrats have no choice but to remain in denial because acknowledging racial progress would upend their identity politics and risk putting the party out of business. Thus the nation was subjected to the spectacle of a president in 2022 trying to convince us that the black franchise is as precarious as it was six decades ago.

    C’mon, Joe. You’re better than that.

    Appeared in the January 19, 2022, print edition.







     
  8. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    that is a direct quotation from the CNN article you linked to, I'm not claiming anything

    Screen Shot 2022-01-19 at 9.40.46 AM.png
     
  9. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    "Even if Let's say"....

    Do you not understand what the context of "Even IF"?

    You could probably find 5 to 10 new polls on the voting rights bills done just yesterday so you can parse whatever polling you want in order to make a case at how many Americans do or don't care about the Republican attempts to subvert our Democracy for their own power. Which is why I said "EVEN IF." I would assume that most Democrats and alot of Independents probably do care about the Democratic process though so I'm sure 20 to 30% is very low.

    The question really is for voters like you though. Why is it your party no longer believes that they can win elections without playing games with the system by shutting down polling places in urban areas, using restricting voter ID rules, and the good ole fashion sitting president calling state election officials and telling them to find 1 more vote than what is needed for him to win??

    Lets stop making this about Democrats and lets make it about you?? Let's stop criticizing Democrats who do care and start asking questions about those that don't???
     
  10. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    This article is like going to a patient in the hospital with a brain tumor and trying to point out that they don't have the common cold. Even though, they do have a runny nose and congestion.

    The article says that except for 'certain' cases they aren't trying to pass legislation allowing them to overturn the popular vote. I do applaud them for mentioning the specific proposals where some Republicans are trying to do that.

    But the article is correct that most of the legislation isn't made to overturn the popular vote.

    Most of the legislation is aimed at making sure that legitimate voters who would vote against Republicans aren't allowed to cast their ballots or that it would be more difficult for them to cast their ballot. That is the intent and function of the legislation. It's dangerous and wrong. So pointing out that there are only a few cases where legislators have proposed changes that would allow the overturning of the popular vote isn't really any kind of reassurance.

    Elections have been secure. The current methods have been effective at keeping them secure. The goal should be to allow as many people to vote as can be done in a secure manner.
     
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  11. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
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    You have all of congress. Do what you feel is best. My urban friends have no problem voting. It's easier to vote than it is to find tennis balls right now.
     
  12. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    from the CNN-linked report from the Brennan Center that dobro provided:

    Screen Shot 2022-01-19 at 10.04.28 AM.png

    I am having difficulty seeing how this Georgia law makes it harder for blacks or other urban minorities to vote. To cite just one example.

    Again, if people want to take a closer look at any ONE law and explain that ONE law's likely effects on disadvantaged voters, I'm all for it.

    for what it's worth, the Brennan Center also provides an overview of newly-EXPANSIVE voting laws:

    Screen Shot 2022-01-19 at 10.07.33 AM.png


    I don't hear as many people talking about these laws.
     
  13. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    The law about not being able to pass out water to people in long voting lines?

    1. With impoverished and minority polling places having longer lines (due to having to ride share, take buses from churches and worship groups, closing down of polling places in their area, fewer times when they can vote because their jobs are paid hourly rather than salaried and missing work means missing necessary money, restrictions about mail in voting, etc.) that would affect those voters more than others who are able to stop in and be out of their polling locations quickly. Rural areas, suburbs, etc. have fewer people that need to vote at one location. The lines would be shorter.

    2. As far as why people aren't talking about the laws that increase access to voting opportunities, why would there be debate about that? It seems logical and helpful. It is the exact opposite of the many places where they are seeking to restrict voting and toss out votes.
     
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  14. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    and how is that not a local problem? long lines that is
     
  15. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    It is a local problem when the local legislations are restricting the number of polling places, hours of polling places, etc. But when it happens in variations in multiple states it is a national problem, and one that voting protections can help.
     
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  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    sounds like inept local election management in largely blue urban strongholds
     
  17. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Much of it comes from state legislation, and in places where there are urban centers as well as suburban and rural populations.
     
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  18. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    how about long lines on the University of Texas campus in Austin for the 2016 election? Republican malfeasance or some other cause?

    Students See Long Voting Lines at UT Austin

    https://spectrumlocalnews.com/news/2016/11/8/students-see-long-lines-at-ut-austin
     
  19. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Andre0087 likes this.
  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Good lord you are ignorant or just F-ing with him. As he just explained to you, polling locations are organized at the state level. YES it is Republican malfeasance. They do this in highly concentrated blue areas to make the numbers in those areas lighten. When you see the line around the building at your Chick Fil A at 11AM during a busy work week when you just want a small order of nuggets, are you more likely to go there, or just say you'll maybe come back later when the line is shorter??

    So yes, the GREGG ABBOTT APPOINTED Secretary of State and the Republican controlled commission controls the number of polling places allowed. Yes... it is Republican Malfeasance here in Texas, and in many other states. The University of Texas and the city of Austin have nothing to do with how many polling locations they are allowed to have. Gregg Abbott and his SOS do.
     

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