So it's your opinion that V-Span's TO numbers will get BETTER with more minutes? I think we got off on the wrong foot, and I'm sorry for being a you-know-what. So enough beating around the bush. Is V-Span REALLY as good as you give him credit for being? Is JVG's decision to limit his minutes REALLY that bad? I'd appreciate your honest reply.
I am not particularly worrying about VSpan's TOs if he gets more minutes. TOs don't increase proportionally to playing time. I am, however, a little concerned about his passing game. I remember there was a post written by a fan from Greece (or a fan who had followed VSpan's European tours closely) which provided some very insightful information about VSpan's game. Basically he said VSpan is not a natural PG but a very capable player creating his own shots. Nobody seemed to take his post seriously at the time and it was soon forgotten. I'll see if I can locate it later.
Honestly, I don't know if he is or isn't, but I see glimpses of brilliance, and I know the Rockets need a 2nd penetrator to play when teams double Yao and Tmac in the 4th quarter, they need someone who can set the table and let others eat. V-Span could be that guy, but not by playing tenativly, he needs to be allowed to make mistakes...by all means....let him know when he makes a mistake, but also, let him play through some of them, he is a smart player who is still adjusting to the NBA game. V-Span seems to be a natural PG, but JVG has him playing the 2 guard....when we desperatly need a backup PG ( A point I agree with Sam about), this is SOOOOOO shortsigthed on JVG's part.....put V-Span in there to backup Rafer, let him play his natural position. Let him learn and make mistakes, we will be a LOT better in May with a confident V-Span, IMHO. Is he the answer to all our problems? That depends on the question. He is a great perimeter defender, a very good passer, and has a winning attitude that this team needs. But, he has to be on the court to get his confidence and timing down, not to mention get used to his teamates. JVG should play V-Span and get on him when he messes up, but put him RIGHT back in there and see how he responds. Playing him 6 cursory minutes the next night after his 5 Turnover game is silly, and smacks of a little man trying to make an overblown point. JVG should know that players are going to loosen up when they are up by 30, that is human nature......and players will lose interest in any point that JVG is trying to make when he criticizes players for having fun...when the game is basically over. I just think JVG over reacted, and it may have cost us the Minnesota game....we sure could have used V-Span's energy and driving in the 2nd half........ As for his Blog, I think it is clear that V-Span is aware that the Napoleonic complex is in full fury. DD
You have 2 conflicting main ideas here: 1. You say we should play V-Span more and let him make mistakes and learn from them now, even if it means losing some games, so he'll be better in the future. 2. You say we should play V-Span more because he is really good and will win us some games now (like the Minnesota game). Now, on face, those ideas aren't contradictory, but when you consider that V-Span DOES allow a lot of turnovers, it's another story. You say that V-Span should play more minutes at PG, but more minutes DO mean more turnovers (despite what wnes said), and V-Span simply is not capable of bringing the ball up the court CONSISTANTLY without turning it over. In that respect, he is not yet an adequate backup to Rafer. His attitude about playing "garbage" minutes is also a negative. He has not proven himself capable of handling more minutes, yet he goofs around in the few minutes he does get?!?! Right now, V-Span is a liability. His numbers and his play have shown that. Whether he can develop and become a solid contributor remains to be seen, but we cannot afford to lose games simply for the cause of developing one decent player. Let him develop in practice and prove himself in limited minutes. When he does this, I'm sure JVG will give him a fair shot, but he is not helping his own cause by "entertaining" the crowd in the 4th quarter.
Oh and will you please give it a rest with the psychoanalysis? If anything, you're projecting your own complexes onto your perception of JVG. See? Anybody can use folk science to prove a bogus claim. Truth is, you have no idea what JVG is thinking. Stick to criticizing JVG's strategy. It'll help with your credibility issues.
I disagree that playing him some minutes at backup PG means we are going to lose games because of it, and I do think he is more of an asset in certain types of situations, like the Minnesota game. In fact his defense is superior to Rafer's so while he learns the PG job on the fly at least he is solid defensively. You overestimate practice in the regular season, when I worked at KSAT 12 in San Antonio covering the Spurs during the Larry Brown era, he used to talk about how much he had a problem coaching during the regular season because of the lack of actual practice time. Shoot around and game planning were the mainstays, and actual practice/teaching/scrimmaging was very rare during the season. To address your points: I never said sacrifice winning by playing him, but to allow him to play and make a mistake and let him learn from it. I don't think playing him 15-20 minutes a game is going to cost the team any wins, and when he is screwing up majorly...yank him. I think that in situations where the other team doubles TMac (taking the ball out of his hands) and Yao early in the offense we need another player who is capable of penetrating and setting up his teamates...Head/Battier etc.... V-Span is the only other creative type of penetrating player we have, and he will ONLY get better as he gains experience. He has already proven he can play and win against Lebron, D-Wade, Carmelo etc in the world championships, he is not some untested rookie...he is a seasoned veteran player who understands the game. However, by playing tenatively he will take longer to reach his peak...... And again, I reiterate, he had ONE game of 5 turnovers...ONE !!!! And 3 of those came after the team was up 30....which was horsing around garbage time. JVG did not see it as that, and I doubt V-span will do it again.....but he should.....we were up 30... DD PS. I appreciate your honest attempt at discourse and lack of name calling which is something that SOME posters resort to when they are getting pwned.
Ok, so we disagree. You think: V-Span can help us win more games NOW if given more minutes. I think: V-Span is a liability NOW and his TO numbers will only get worse with more minutes, especially if they are mostly at the PG position. The evidense clearly supports my position here. Other than V-Span's record against inferior competition, there is nothing in the way he has played that has suggested that he deserves more minutes. You think: V-Span's antics against Golden State were acceptable (and appropriate) because he should try to entertain the crowd whenever it is a blowout. You think this despite the fact that you also think V-Span needs more minutes to develop. I think: If V-Span wants more minutes, he should use the few minutes he does get to prove that he deserves them. V-Span is really too short and can't shoot well enough to play significant minutes at SG, and he's too TO-prone to play significant minutes at PG. This is based on his performance in games this season against NBA competition (not to mention preseason). I'm still not sure what your opinion is based on... You think: That I'm being "pwned." I think: You are WAY off, and no amount of can change that.
So I found the post I was referring to earlier re VSpan. I think it's pretty insightful and thus worth reposting. Hopefully this time it won't get lost amongst all the bickering. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=2598873&postcount=304
No evidence to back this up other than one game where his turnovers happened when it didn't matter. The World championships where he led Greece to a 2nd place finish and scored 22 points against the USA while playing Lebron, D-Wade, Carmelo, Battier, Howard...is INFERIOR? I think in the context of the situation, up by 30 - 6 minutes to go, it is ok to let your hair down a bit and try to entertain, yes. He is a legitimate 6'4" which is big enough for SG, but very good for PG. Is he turnover prone? I think the sample size is too small to know....one game of 5 turnovers does not mean he is turnover prone...Yao had SEVEN last night.....TMac had 5.....should we only play them 6 minutes in the next game? No, I think you are very reasonable, my reference was to my pwning of Sam. I get that, we just see things differently, I respect your position, but I don't think you learn by sitting.....but by doing. DD
Man I come into this thread hoping Span wrote something new in his blog, but it's just debate over whether he should play, which isn't a bad thing. For what it's worth, I hope VSpan gets more minutes, but I don't want him in there in cruch time with Yao and T-Mac, for the Rockets just don't have enough shooters. What would the lineup be? Span, Mac, Batt, Hayes and Yao? Head gets the nod over VSpan because Head shoots 50% on his treys. Alston get the nod if they go small ball. Hey, I love Span, and I think he's a very good penetrator off the pick and roll, and that was his specialty at the World Championships. But until T-Mac finds his 3pt shot (which is currently at 29%), VSpan isn't going to be our point in crunch time. It's just not a complimentary package out there. The only possible lineup I can see working in the 4th with Span would be him with Head, Mac, Battier, and Yao, but I still don't see that happening until Mac and Battier become more consistent behind the arc.
You did not consider that he hardly played the 1 in the games so far and the season is not over yet...
Asst/to ratio can't be less than 1 for anyone but a dominant low-post scorer. Are there any succesful perimeter guys who average more turnovers than assists? Billy's trying to learn. We need him, so I hope he learns a bit faster. We need a backup PG with his exact qualities. Someone tough, energetic, bullies his way to the rim, and is mentally strong. But we need him to at least be able to keep a 2 to 1 asst/to ratio. I'm not worried about his shooting. In fact, I hope he realizes that he should take less 3's until he gets better at it in practice. Take them in games to see progress, but not as many as he's taking. I want him to mostly go to the rim and get FT's. Our team needs that, and he'll be most effective that way.
Well, this is how I interprete Spanoulis: He comes from Europe, where the NBA is a synonym for show and entertainment. He thought that it would be OK to entertain the crowd a bit in the last mins of the game, when his team was up 34. Maybe he was not told that this is luxury is reserved for all-stars only. As I believe that he is a smart guy, he will not repeat it untill he is voted All-Star. Therefore it is not worth argueing about it. I think that Spanoulis has shown so far that he can be a good scorer and keep his TOs down. We should consider that his To-average was below one until the game against the Warriors. As time passes, JVG will trust him more and let him play the 1. Than his ass/to ratio will increase considerably and everybody will be happy. And in the next season after hard work with rockets coaces in the off season we will see the V-Span we were all dreaming about. Because even the hardest critics have to admit that his potential is very high: He can penetrate very well, he can defend very well and he has partly shown that he can do great with Yao. Remember tha game between the USA and Greece: Greece beat the USA especially with simple pick and rolls. So please consider what great p&r Span could play next year with Yao.
I totally agree with you: Just to comments: 1) Concerning his as/to-ratio: Dont forget he mainly played the 2... and stats are not everything. I have wathed him in several games and I have observed that he had some great passes which his mates could not turn into points.. 2) Concerning his shooting: When he is playing the 2, he is supposed to camp at the corner, and when he gets the opportunity to shoot without any opponents near him, he has to do so. Otherwise, he will be accused for hesitating (by JVG as well as by us). Therefore I hope that he will play the one soon to show his real potential: I insist: In Europe he is a combo guard, in the NBA he is a clear playmaker!
Problem is, JVG expects him to take 3's, which is his weakness, he is a pure PG that likes to penetrate and dish, not much more.... Now he has to learn something that he hasn't done a lot, or probably a position that he didn't play ever before.... here is my statement If he continues to play that same position he played under JVG and he does not learn fast, he will not last long here.... If JVG trusts Baklava and lets him do his thing, Baklava works on his TO's, he could easily become the next Nash without the shooting touch ya guys seen Nash last night...thats impossible to copy
"He could easily become the next Nash without the shooting touch". Can we drop the hyperbole? Do you have some kind of crystal ball or something? Can Novak "easily" be the next Bird without the passing? V-Span will improve but let's get real. None of us know how good he will be, this season or in the future. JVG will never trust V-Span until after the TOs go down, not the other way. AFTER the TOs go down, don't be surprised if V-Span gets some time at PG. How can this concept be hard for anyone to understand? The sole purpose of this season is not developing V-Span, it's about winning games. If the TOs don't go down and stay down at SG, he simply won't get time at PG this season. If/when he pulls it together, Luther will slide to the corner when they are in at the same time. So for right now, V-Span should focus on how to help the offense when he doesn't have the ball.
Vspan needs the ball to be effective, he's good if we need a penetrating guard who handles the ball, but not as effective when he's asked to just pass the ball and stand at the corner to shoot, since he hasn't really developed his shot yet. He does have potential though.
Agree totally, that is why he should gets ome minutes at the PG position. For those of you who think his turnovers will get worse, or stay the same, don't you think that he will improve? I think with playing time he will learn to protect the ball better and at the end of the season will be MUCH better at it than he is now. But, he has to have the opportunity to learn from his mistakes. DD
Yes I've seen the future Baklava - The next Steve Nash (without the shooting touch), same amount of hair on his head
