Doesn't work two ways. Francis' BYC value was $5,033,875. Add in a $6.9m TE and the total is $11.9m. McGrady's 03-04 contract was $13.3m so your still $1.4m short. But the real reason is that the CBA doesn't allow a single players' contract to be aggregated with a TE to match another individuals' contract. Strike 2. Several problems. Other than Reece Gaines supposedly left unprotected in the expansion draft, where have you ever seen in a reliable source that the Bobcats were involved? Where's our pick? The Bobcats did this because they are new to the league and trying to make friends? If all they got was a renounced TE to give the Rockets a draft pick, it wasn't among their best managerial decisions. Further, would CHA have enough cap space to absorb a $10m contract? The mechanics of free agency are such that FA's still hit your cap until re-signed or renounced. All of their expansion draft players hit their cap immediately. The Bobcats' current cap is $23+m. Without going into too many details, I humbly submit that the 'Cats never had a spare $10m to absorb Francis. . Lastly if the seemingly impossible were possible...the Rockets' exception would have been in the amount of $5m (Francis' BYC value) not $5.48m.
They're saying at Realgm it's 5.48. Which makes sense because we would've had to use the TE to trade francis before his BYC period was up considering Orlando was over the cap. And in turn Orlando would have to send us part of that TE in return to deal Howard who was also a byc player as well. So we sent them 6.3 of our TE and they sent us 5.4 back. Only our TE doesn't expire till next June as opposed to september. Now that's some creative financing.
Howard could not have been BYC. His last contract with DEN was $20+m. His contract with ORL was just above the MLE.
Francis 2003 salary was $10.96m, half would be $5.48m. Houston Rockets Total: $55,401,432 Steve Francis .............. $10,960,000 Maurice Taylor ............. $7,800,000 Kelvin Cato ................ $7,344,000 Clarence Weatherspoon ...... $5,445,600 Cuttino Mobley ............. $5,394,125 Yao Ming ................... $4,147,560 Matt Maloney ............... $3,006,260 [released 10/99] Eric Piatkowski ............ $2,500,000 Eddie Griffin .............. $2,312,760 [released 12/12/03] Jim Jackson ................ $2,200,000 Bostjan Nachbar ............ $1,396,440 Adrian Griffin ............. $751,179 [minimum, 2 year contract] Scott Padgett .............. $688,679 [minimum] Mike Wilks ................. $638,679 [minimum] Alton Ford ................. $586,082 [minimum] Ben Davis .................. $176,369 [released 12/12/03, minimum] Torraye Braggs ............. $53,697 [released 11/23/03, minimum] http://www.dfw.net/~patricia/misc/salaries04.txt
Okay let me have a shot at it Francis - 5.48 Mobley - 5 Cato - 7 Trade exc. 6,327,000 = 23,807,000 Mcgrady - 14.5 Howard - 6 Lue - 1.575 Gaines - 1.68 = 23,755,000 Since Francis only counts as half, the half was sent back as a trade exc.
Not to be blunt or anything, but that explanation on the Insider's site is crap. Here's some problems with it: 1) First trade was Francis to Orlando for a new trade exception. That's where the $5.48m comes from for next year. Francis was a Base Year Player, so his salary only counted for halfthe amount. Ok, so how did Orlando cover Francis' salary? They didn't have that much cap space and they didn't have a TE. This described deal is illegal. Remember if Francis was BYC, then he's count at 50% for the money we sent out, but he still counts at full salary for the team that receives him. So, they're telling me that Orlando had almost $11M in cap space or TE? No way. 2) The second was McGrady, Howard, Gaines, & Lue for Mobley, Cato, & ~$6,300,000 worth of the $6.9m trade exception. You can't aggregate the TE with other players salaries to acquire higher priced players. That's illegal. Further, if you add up the salaries in this deal, even if you could aggregate the TE (and you can't), the numbers don't add up. McGrady, Howard, Gaines and Lue made $21M last season. Mobley and Cato made a combined $12.7. How can you cover a $8.3M difference, when the entire trade exception is only worth $6.9M? So, if we couldn't cover it with $6.9M, then how the heck would we only have to user $6.3M worth of the exception? Remember in deals where you user the TE, you have to match exactly (no 15% variance). Secondly, if this had actually occured as described (using $6.3M of TE), then we'd still have ~$600K left on the original exception, so until Sept. 30th (the year anniversary of the Rice deal), we'd actuall have $6.08M in TE, not $5.48. After that date, then the remaining $600K would go away. My opinion is that we still own a $6.9M TE that expires on Sept 30th. I know for a fact that this explanation that on Insiders.com is garbage.
Is it possible to combine TEs? If so, could they have sent Howard and Lue to us for almost all our TE (plus a pick, perhaps). That creates a TE for them of around $6.5 million. They use that to get Mobley (does he make $5.4 million?) and give the pick they got back. Then, you trade Francis and Cato straight up for McGrady and Gaines. Except that still won't work because of the BYC. Btw, isn't the BYC 75% in its last year, not 50%? Gater or Aelliott, do you have any explanation about how the deal could have gotten done at all, considering the BYC? The TE must have been involved somehow to get around that, right? Anyway, Feigen, if you're reading, please write an article on this subject. It really needs some light shed on it. I'm not too pleased if we do have a new exception. If we do, it expires right before next offseason. We don't get another offseason to use it in. So, we may as well use it in this one.
There is only one year of BYC now in the CBA, and it is 50%; the two year BYC expired a couple of years back. Looking over the numbers, I'm not sure how this changes the Rockets' financial situation at all. The Magic, for trade purposes, gave up just about $21m. The Rockets gave up just over $18m. Without Francis' BYC, it comes to about $23.7m. In a trade, Houston compares $18m to $21m. They have a trade exception to make the deal work, so it gets done on that end. Orlando, however, has to compare about $21m to $23.7m. You always compare the BYC values of your players to the *full* salaries of the players on the other squad, per the CBA (see http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#72 for more). Since the salaries are within 115% of each other, the deal is good on this end as well. BYC is only used in comparing salaries for trades, however. It is my understanding that trades in which the salaries match within 115% plus $100,000 do not give either side a trade exception, again per the CBA (see the FAQ again, questions 68 and 18). Thus, neither side should receive a trade exception, and Houston's trade exception should be the one acquired a long time ago in the Rice deal...not one from this deal or affected by anything in this deal. And the part about involving Charlotte as a third team, an intermediary for one or more of the players involved - the NBA would view that as circumvention of the salary cap/CBA and veto that on the spot. It doesn't - and didn't - happen.
a) i don't see how we can use a TE to make it work from one side and then not have our TE affected, whether the 15% + 100K rule works from orlando's side or not. b) anyway that doesn't matter b/c we can't simply use the TE to make up the difference in 18 and 21 million because it can't be combined with other players. we would have to take either lue, gaines, or howard with the TE and then make the other players match up in the deal match up according to the 115% + 100K rule from both sides (which shows just how difficult a two team BYC trade is, it not only has to be big enough for the 15% to negate the BYC difference but even that only works if the non-BYC team's salaries are damn near right in the middle of the other team's BYC and real world salary numbers). c) the problem i believe is that if you take one of those players out, then it doesn't work from the 15% + 100K perspective for orlando. can someone explain. do we use 03-04 numbers or 04-05 numbers here? i assume we have to use 04-05 since the trade deadline for this year already passed but then why does francis have to stay BYC since only the first year of his extension makes the BYC necessary. is he BYC simply because it wasn't July 1st yet or it hadn't been a year since his extension kicked in (i believe which took precedent was debated on here but i don't recall the answer)? either way, using hoopshype's numbers i can't make the trade work whether i use 03-04 or 04-05 and no matter who i take out with the TE. i can get it to work for one side and then only be a few 100K off on the other (or vice versa) but something tells me there numbers are off by just enough* to make it so that it works in real life. *can someone confirm francis' actual salary from 03-04? hoopshype has 10.067M, patricia has 10.96M. while i always go to hh (and i go for salary info only and only because i love how they put it in table format for each team), isn't their 10.067 number based on 25% of the cap for the year francis signed the extension and not the correct 25% of the cap for the year the extension kicked in? iirc, the cap took a big hit two years ago and went down to 40.2M (25% of 40.24M is 10.06) and then went up to about 43.8M the next year (25% of 43.84 is 10.96). since francis would get paid 25% of the cap when the extension kicked in (which was last year and it's ~43.8M cap) and not when he signed it i assume hh just put the 10.06 info in and never updated it with the new cap numbers. but as always, i could be wrong.
JV, If I'm understanding your question, then yes you could do a series of sequential deals and acquire TE in one part and then turn around and use that TE in a subsequent part. But, of course each of the trades in that series of deals would have to work cap wise, and as you've already noticed, the described ones don't. BYC use to be 2 years and year one was 75%. Starting last season (I think it was last year...might have been the year before), BYC is only 1 year @50%. No the TE doesn't have to be involved to make the deal work. The easiest way to make a BYC deal work is to have cap space. Another possible way is with a TE (that might not be possible for all deals, since you can't aggregate the TE). The other way around BYC that has been used in the past is to add players to the deal and get the total salaries on each side of the deal high enough so that you the 15% difference covers the BYC amount. Think about the deal: From our point of view, we sent out $Francis ($10.96),Cato ($7.34),Mobley($5.4) for a total of $23.7M in actual salary. If we adjust Francis salary to reflect his BYC status, then for the purpose of a trade, we sent out $18.22M. We took in a total of $21M. So, since we sent out $18.22M, we can legally take back 115% + 100K of that amount. That means that we're allowed to take back at most $21.05M. The amount we took back is just less than that so the deal is legal from our POV. From Orlando's POV: Salary out :$21M Salary in : $23.7M (Francis' full salary counts here, not his BYC) So, they took back 12.8% more salary than they sent out, so the deal is legal from their POV.
The actual BYC adjusted amount out was around $18.22M. You only have to be within 15% + 100K, so no need to use the TE for this portion, it already works.
I don't know how you get a definitive answer, but I have no reason to think that we don't have the entire $6.9M remaining until Sept. 30th.
From Rockets point of view, each of the following trades work cap wise Cat + Cato for T Mac + Gaines $4.917M TE + pick for Howard $1.5M TE + pick for Lue Francis for 2 picks (salary out> salary in) The picks cancel out. TE remained from Rice's trade = $0.573M ($6.99M-$4.917-$1.5M). New TE from the trade = $5.48M (Half of $10.96M) Same as mentioned in RealGM. Of course, the trade could also work without using TE and the entire $6.99M TE will remain until Sept 30th.
Ok, so they work from the Rockets point of view...you do realize that in order to make these trades that they also have to work from Orlandos point of view? How is Orlando going to trade only draft picks ($0 in a trade) for Francis ($10.96M). They'd have to have over $9M in cap space or TE. Of course, they didn't have anything approaching that.
