REgardless, chastity and abstinence, which also, by the way, take education, are the only undeniable ways to stop the spread of HIV in Africa.
That is like saying that honesty is the only undeniable way to stop the spread of thievery. It may be true in theory, but it is wrong in practice. If your goal is for Africans to live godly (as you define it) lives, your way makes sense. If your goal is to lower the incidence of HIV, you better provide education and condoms. It's best not to confuse the two goals.
We all know that in poor countires and Africa that in many cases these poor women do not have a real chance to say "no" or be chaste. In reality these poor women there and in many other parts of the world, including in the US cannot pay their bills or even eat, if they do not have men who pay the bills. These men expect sex. It is an instinct/custom that predates the Catholic church by hundreds of thousands of years. You are telling these poor women in Africa, you must die until there is a complete change of your social structure based on thousands of years of culture until you can practice chastity or natural birth control as we are teaching. We can weigh the cost benefit analysis of war, but in your case, you poor third world women, it is not allowed by the church to weigh your lives vs the alleged evils of condoms--not by the Church, Paul John Paul or Pope Benedict. It doesn't have to be this way, even in the Catholic Church, but for fanatics who believe that they alone have the answers or know God's will are in charge. They fight to suppress perhaps even a majority opinion of laity and priests that this is not God's will. They have a religion devoid of mercy and charity at least toward these poor women. However, quite a bit of mercy and charity is shown toward pedophile priests. It is more like the Taliban approach to religion.
My earthbound LC brother, explain please. Intellectually can't "hold a flame"? Uh, disagree. Finacially? Agree. Numerically? Agree. Jesuit numbers continue to drop fast anyway, worldwide. I don't know that a split would affect that in a negative way. The Jesuits have been banned by Popes three times already in their 500 years of operation (four?). Since the new Pope is opposed to liberation theology, with it's heinous and unmistakable Marxist odour, you have to wonder about it, as most Jesuit Universities now promote social justice as a central part of their mission. Can you imagine? Social justice? What are they thinking?
So are you saying that if the Catholic Church comes out and says "It is O.K. to use condoms" that these men - who you say "expect sex" - will strap one on? What evidence is there that these men who "expect sex" will listen to the Catholic Church?
My LC alien friend, the scholastic tradition was started by the Benedictines. They are the reason why we have Aristotle and many other texts that were being destroyed. Jesuits have a very good education as well but I don't think they compare to, well let's put it this way, my friends who are in the Cistercian Order across the street will be expected to get two masters, a doctorate, and the equivalent of a another doctorate while studying in Rome. Really I've never seen anything like it. Their abbot was on the Pope's Doctrinie committee with Ratzinger. They are a smart bunch, and their charism is vastly different from the Jesuits, which is ok and actually wonderful. No one is against social justice. I am against Marxism though, even though well, you know my last name.
From www.billmon.org The Good German But historians and Jewish groups agree that the pope's wartime record, which was very common to young men of his generation, has little if any significance today . . . New York Times Few See Taint in Service by Pope in Hitler Youth April 21, 2005 "The majority went. That does not make all of them Nazis ... I wouldn't say that Ratzinger made a choice. He rather slipped into the Hitler Youth thing." Father Rupert Berger, a contemporary of Ratzinger who refused to join the Hitler Youth Interview with Newsday April 22, 2005 Haselbeck said Traunstein responded to Nazism as an ordinary Bavarian town would, and Ratzinger responded like an ordinary resident. "I think it was the normal way for a young man," he said. Washington Post Pope's Home Town Walked a Fine Line Under Nazi Rule April 22, 2005 Ratzinger insists he never took part in combat or fired a shot, because of a badly infected finger. The Independent Pope Benedict: His role in the Nazi years April 21, 2005 "Resistance was truly impossible." The pope's brother, Georg Ratzinger Interview with the Times of London April 17, 2005 _____________________________________________ The White Rose Society (German, Die Weiße Rose) was a World War II-era resistance movement in Germany calling for nonviolent resistance against the Nazi regime . . . leaflets were sent out in mass mailings from different cities in Bavaria and Austria, since the members believed that southern Germany would be more receptive to their anti-militarist message. Wikipedia White Rose Last updated March 27, 2005 By the summer of 1942, Hans Scholl and Alexander Schmorell were at the center of a close-knit group of friends who shared the same ideals and interests . . . Hans and Alex were soon joined by Christoph Probst (a level-headed, married soldier and father of three who was loved by everyone who knew him) and Willi Graf (another medical student and a devout Catholic who never joined the Hitler Youth and refused to acknowledge those who did) . . . These friends, sometimes joined by popular philosophy professor Kurt Huber, Jürgen Wittenstein and others, formed the heart of The White Rose. jlrweb.com The White Rose July 2004 Therefore every individual, conscious of his responsibility as a member of Christian and Western civilization, must defend himself as best he can at this late hour, he must work against the scourges of mankind, against fascism and any similar system of totalitarianism . . . Do not forget that every people deserves the regime it is willing to endure! The White Rose First Leaflet 1942 "Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare to express themselves as we did." White Rose member Sophie Scholl Testimony before a Nazi "People's Court" February 1943 That afternoon, the prison guards permitted Hans, Sophie, and Christoph to have one last visit together. Sophie was then led to the guillotine. One observer described her as she walked to her death: "Without turning a hair, without flinching." Christoph Probst was next. Hans Scholl was last; just before he was beheaded, Hans cried out: "Long live freedom!" Jacob G. Hornberger The White Rose: A Lesson in Dissent January 1996 "It was possible to resist, and those people set an example for others. The Ratzingers were young and had made a different choice." 84-year-old Elizabeth Lohner, a resident of the pope's home town Interview with the Times of London April 17, 2005
So you're calling him a nazi for not joining the white rose group? Pretty sweet dude. Hope you didn't do anything dumb when you were 14.
gifford -- in all honesty..the guy was 14. he was a boy. in that culture, i'm betting that wasn't his choice to make..it was made for him by his parents. as opposed to the ADULTS who chose otherwise. there was incredible theological resistance to the Nazis in Germany among Christians. Bonhoffer is the poster boy for Christians in resisting authority to obey God. and there was a statement of faith written from that time that is still part of various protestant churches even today. but to condemn a 14 year old boy for that??? seriously???
I did not call the Pope a Nazi- dude. I posted information and quotes that contrasted Ratzinger's behavior with the behavior of people who did resist the Nazis. I'm sure there were many Germans who did not embrace Nazi ideology, but joined the party or groups like the Hitler Youth to get along. However, some extraordinary people did actively oppose the Nazi's, Ratzinger just wasn't one of them. Is there some reason that his behavior during this time shouldn't be examined? I did plenty of dumb things when I was 14, 15, 26, 34 whatever. And I have no idea what I have would have done had I lived in Germany at that time, but I'm not sure how this is relevant as I wasn't just chosen to be the spiritual leader of millions.
probably because he was 14. how old were the "extraordinary people?" and does a lifetime lived denouncing mistreatment of Jews merit nothing? perhaps the most central tenent of Christanity is redemption.
How about Senator Byrd from West Virginia? Would you condemn him for joining the KKK? He was an adult at the time and joining was not compulsory.
So what was your intent then? Just to post some intresting facts to point out that he particaularly wasn't Pope material when he was 14? Like Max said, man is fallen, but can always be redeemed. Shoot look at Peter, denied Christ 3 times and he got to be the first Pope. I wonder if there were blogs at the time if people would be asking, "This man denied Christ 3 times, is he really fit to lead the Church?" Followed by a post about a Roman finger being found at Haji's butcher shop down in Old town. Yes, its interesting to look at I guess. Does it prove anything about the character of the man now? Not really.
Here's some information about about youth resistance to the Nazis. http://members.aol.com/baronvanc/swingyox.htm
