Not so fast. Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/5044244.stm Published: 2006/06/03 14:14:42 GMT The Iraqi government has rejected the findings of a US military investigation into the deaths of 11 civilians in the village of Ishaqi, north of Baghdad. A spokesman for Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki said the report, which cleared the US soldiers of wrongdoing, was unfair. The government will demand an apology and compensation, the spokesman said. The US said allegations the troops had deliberately killed a family and then covered it up were "absolutely false". A report filed by Iraqi police accused US troops of rounding up and deliberately shooting 11 people in the house in Ishaqi, including five children and four women, before blowing up the building. The US military report, issued on Friday evening, said four bodies including that of an insurgent were found after the raid in March and acknowledged there were up to nine "collateral deaths". However, it concluded the US soldiers had behaved correctly. The outcome of the Pentagon investigation emerged a day after the BBC released video footage that appears to show the aftermath of US action in Ishaqi, about 100km (60 miles) north of Baghdad. The video shows a number of dead adults and children at the site with what our world affairs editor John Simpson says were clearly gunshot wounds. Other inquiries Other incidents are being investigated by the Pentagon. One inquiry is looking into an alleged massacre at Haditha last November, in which 24 civilians were killed. A report in the New York Times newspaper says Marines commanders learned within two days that civilians in Haditha had died from gunfire, but saw no reason to investigate. It had initially been reported that the 24 civilians had died in a roadside bomb. The commanders told investigators they had not seen anything usual in the differing accounts of the incident, and that they had no information at the time to suggest any civilians had been killed deliberately, the newspaper reports. Mr Maliki has said he will ask the US for the investigative files into the incident. Another Pentagon investigation is looking at an incident in Hamandiya, where an Iraqi man is alleged to have been deliberately killed on 26 April - and that the circumstances were covered up. Seven Marines and a navy sailor are being held at a military base in California over the killing. One of their defence lawyers has said they are expected to be charged in relation to the incident, reports say.
That's actually one of the few inadvertently intelligent things I've seen you type. In the battle for hearts & minds, which is what we are losing, and which was the ostensible purpose of this disastrous and tragic mistake in Iraq - the accusation does do the damage. Denials from the US, thanks to the fact that we voluntarily squandered our credibility w/respect to these things, thanks to the Decider & co. A denial from the pentagon will be met with nothng but scorn,and now the next generation of suicide bombers have their inspiration.
It's hard to beat the unholy trinity that is the insurgents, the news media, and the Democrats. That's the real Sunni triangle.
Indiscriminant shooting/killing of unarmed civilians is NEVER bravery. If anything, it manifests the lack of proper training, disregard for innocent human lives in occupied foreign countries, and a sign of being stressed as well as frustration at seeing no light at the end of tunnel. Do we all forget we are the liberators who are supposed to bring democracy and freedom to Iraqi people? Are we now lowering our bar to the same levels as the occupying German forces in much of the Western Europe during WWII and Soviet troops in much of the Eastern Europe post WWII?
You know gweenes, I have a sister you haven't called a w**** yet, and some deceased relatives for you to insult, big man.
Well, little boy, I have some relatives that you haven't invited to commit suicide yet. Perhaps you can start with my father's side.
Because of my job, I occassionally spend time in Navajo country. I've had the honor of meeting several code-talkers, as well as vets from every modern conflict, and Lori Piestewa's uncle, who himself is a vet... the Navajos have a tradition of service and the code-talkers, especially are held in great reverence in the community. But none are "proud" about their participation in a war or their proximity to death. When they return from duty, most undergo a days-long purifying ritual to cleanse their soul. You never hear any Navajo really talk about combat, even though they may show up at meetings with caps and stuff that identify them in a way that you know they were in the thick of it. My great uncles who served in WWII, my cousin from the Korean War, my uncle from the Vietnam War... all exhibit this kind of attitude, though obviously without the cultural practices of the Navajos. I suspect my cousin, who was killed in a training accident before the first Gulf War would have a similar reaction were he alive. When you think of all the things from WWII that resonate through our culture and shape the way we think and our place in the world, it's somewhat amazing to me that the idea of "War is Hell" doesn't have a stronger grip on the world and the people that make the decisions about whether to start one or not.
LOL, ok friend, I withdraw my retraction of the offer for you to investigate japanese ritual suuicide years ago. Apparently this was a seminal event in your young life and sweeping it under the rug is not going to work. While I agree that japanese ritual suicide would spare us a great deal of your melodrama queen - ness, I hereby challenge you to a physical duel of fists and mettle to avenge your honor. We can spar at Wat gym 30 Howard street, 3rd Floor at 8 pm on thursdays, You may win, I may win, either way it would be cleansing. The only condition is that afterward you'll cease being such an e-b**** (or investigate seppuku...whichever is easier).
Says the man who defends commentators that insults dead WWII soldiers who were murdered after they surrendered. Once you again your paper thin support of the troops when it is convenient to bash others is transparent.
Please... Sam's comment was more about your loss of honor, than wishing you death. You are smarter than that.
My own father was in WWII. He talked of having to pick up equipment from the battlefield and finding boots with severed feet still in it. It was one of the worst things he could imagine. He hated it. As a stupid kid I would try and get him to talk about it like it was a WWII movie. He quickly let me know how horrendous all the killing was. My Grandfather was in WWI. When I was a child, I asked him if he had ever killed anyone. He didn't want to talk about it at all. I didn't understand, and he finally said that he was a machine gunner and he just fired, and didn't really know if he died or not. He suffered gas attacks, and got sick and had to stay in France for almost a year after WWI ended. After my father's death we found a series letters between him and my grandfather who was WwI. My father was asking for advice as to whether or not he should join the military. My grandparents replied that the decision was his, and in the first letter my grandparents didn't say much more other than that it was an important decision, and could have life long consequences. The second letter definitely hinted that they wished he wouldn't join up. Finally they just said that they had been thinking about it, and wished he wouldn't enlist. Then there was another letter after my father had informed them that he did join, that they understood his decision, and wished him well, and all that stuff. It was pretty crazy to read.
Unfortunately he isn't. From what I understand, he's just a fat ass that doesn't know how to dress for style.
I'm not blaming your cousin and it sounds like he was justified in the action he took. Still even though your cousin wasn't at fault an unarmed civillian was killed which is a tragedy.
Excellent post and completely agree that situations aren't always clear cut or very obvious on a battlefield. I recall that about 20 years ago at Rice a campus police officer shot a student. It was dark and the student was playing the assisin game and mistook the officer for a fellow player. The student aimed a toy gun at the officer and the officer thinking someone was aiming a real gun at him shot him. The officer wasn't necessarily at fault because he had to make a quick decision under what he thought was an imminent threat but the end result was still that an unarmed student was shot. While this may be totally understandable its not something that IMO should be proud of.
I presume you're kidding. Of course I'm always willing to take you on in hand to hand to combat for the honor of Clutchfans.
BTW, it was noted that while the miltary investigation concluded the killed person was not a terroristic combatatant, he had relatives known to have been identified..., it was altogether possible he was utilizing a dangerous insurgent tactic known as "prediction verification" A tactic always enacted by unarmed co-horts with ties to insurgents. The tactic realized after the fact dealt mainly with observation to predict instances such as vehicle routes, routines, and how far to test complacency. my cousin said this was used early on in his campaign... Once again, I'm proud of not only my cousin's service and actions, but all the military men and women there - returned and still serving. P.S., Since Sishir brought up hand-to-hand,...I haven't talked with my cousin for a couple months but I recall him saying in a house to house sweep, one of his close friends who is a Marine took on a terrorist combatant armed with an AK47 with his 7 inch military KaBAR knife, all because he wasn't sure he had his weapon off safety, and knew he would be quicker with the knife anyway since they were so close. (They both turned the corner into each other, from what I gather) Of course the terrorist had no chance...That was impressive.
