So out of a sample of 4, he was saying " Only 2 of them are Click's the rest are Luhnow's"? To make the point that Luhnow was more responsible for the bullpen success than Click? 5 pitchers had saves for the Astros and 3 of them were Click's guys. 8 pitchers had 5 or more games finished and 6 of them were Click guys. I would say the exact opposite- 2 of the high leverage bullpen guys were left from Luhnow. Cluck rebuilt the entire rest of the bullpen
Maybe? I wasn't the one making the point. Click wasn't solely responsible... but he does deserve credit for last year's bullpen. He finally found that 7th inning guy in Nerris that he was trying to find in Baez (who I believe still is getting paid and still has a banner outside of MMP).
The best thing about Click is not throwing away talent for nothing like Wade. Just because we see no role on the Astros does not mean they are worthless. And when we do move a player, the value doesn't always come from the biggest name. Specifically, Montero and Y Diaz were considered throw ins at the time they were acquired. Click did some good things, but not enough of them.
In the end, Click should be remembered as a rebound. He served his purpose, got the team through a very rough time, didn't mess anything up, served while they won another World Series then the team found Mr. Right. ( hopefully)
I don't think anybody legit is saying otherwise. He got a 3 year deal.... served all of it. There were enough concerns about his personality clashes to move on after year 2. He'll be back in a front office soon (not necessarily as a GM). Crane is ruthless, calculating, doesn't settle, doesn't simply go by emotions. He gave no f's when they were intentionally losing and nobody was coming to the games or watching the games on TV. He probably didn't spend a second of worry about the cheating scandal given how he knew other teams were doing it for longer... but when they got called out, he didn't hesitate to fire a beloved GM/manager like they were nothing. Correa pleads he wants to be in Houston for life... and Crane chuckles. Click is on the podium for the WS win and Crane already knows what he's planning on doing.
If owners are smart they will give Click a chance. You can argue all day how much he was responsible for putting the team together. What you can't argue about is him being there and seeing how a winning and bad ass organization runs. He witnessed it 1st hand. If I'm an owner from a perpetually bad team. I'm bringing him in and telling him to implement the things the Astros do.
Yeah too bad he didn't do enough "good things*, we might have won our second world series by now and been redeemed. Jesus, some of the stupid statements being made splitting hairs over what Click should get credit for.
He got a three year deal and he deserves credit for not trading away the young pitchers the Astros had and giving them a chance when the rest of baseball vastly underestimated how good they were. Having said that, Click was a big part of the personality clash. He did not get along with a number of other people in the Astros front office, didn't develop relationships with others involved in the organization and failed to realize how the organization was ran. He came in and thought he could scrap what was already in place. He brought in his own assistant GM from outside the organization and largely ostracized everyone else that was there before him. That was a big part of the problem. Crane is very cunning and careful what he says. He listens to a lot of people with a lot of different view points and people assume that they are unduly influencing him. The reality is that he makes his own decisions. The only exceptions have been when MLB came to him during the scandal and told him he was going to fire his GM and his coach or the league would administer gar nastier punishments. It was a premeditated decision, and a right one. The league made the decision on who was and wasn't fired and disciplined. Correa tried to play him as well, his preference has long been NY, since before he was a professional. I am sure. My "guess" is that the Yuli decision was the last straw.
But the bullpen wasn't great simply because of the back 4. It was great because all of the others did their jobs, so the back 4 didn't have to be overused or called in at random times, etc. And Stanek was part of the backend of the bullpen all season long too.
Click deserves a lot of credit for not panicking and dealing young arms after Cole left and Verlander was out the year. A lot of general managers would have dealt players like Garcia and Javier for veterans or at least not given them an opportunity. Instead Click stuck to his guns and it was the right decision. He also let his people in the organization do their job. His failings were that he did not do a good job blending into the existing successful culture, he did not pull of trades that others in the organization think he should have pulled off and he gambled on players like Brantley and Meyers being health. Some of his "failures" are just bad luck. He didn't want to raise the offer to Verlander with a player option in year two because he felt it was too risky. A lot of others felt the same way. He wanted Mancini to play over Gurriel. A lot of people wanted that as well. As it turned out, neither was the right move but the reasoning was still solid. At the end of the day, Click's tenure from the outside was a positive one. We went to the ALCS all three years, went to two World Series and won one in an absolutely dominant manner. I am glad to have Brown going forward, but I appreciate Click even though I think he made some mistakes.
Sure. I agree with all of that. And credit to Click (or whoever) who realized that Stanek's peripherals/advanced metrics suggested he was actually not one of the best late inning options for the playoffs (as he had been used all season). I do think Click had a very good approach to roster/lineup/bullpen execution going into the playoffs (partly by necessity since Dusty may not have always done the analytically suggested move... but then again, this year some of those moves paid off... Playing Yuli, batting Pena 2nd, etc.).
I think this is the perfect summary. Some good, some bad; ultimately clashed with the owner, but did a reasonably good job. Left the team in excellent shape going forward and won a WS in the process. And got there in consecutive years for the first time in this run.
I mean- if I’m the owner of the Pirates I’m not ducking around with Click I’m just bringing in the OG himself.
You know, yeah I was wrong in saying that only 2 were Click guys. I can definitely give him credit for building the bullpen, especially when you throw in a guy like Stanek who would be an elite backend reliever on most teams. My point still remains that, in the grand scheme of things, the team that just won the WS was largely constructed by Luhnow. Click did a great job of not screwing it up, and even supplemented the existing pieces by putting together a great bullpen. I'm just not gonna be too torn up about moving on from Click.
Listening to that presser with Brown and Crane, I am not sure if this is an analytical focus or if it is just an abstract concept that Houston prioritizes, but I think that cultural fit and “makeup” might be a market inefficiency that Houston has been exploiting and continues to use to gain an advantage. It’s the type of concept that Atlanta also seems to have prioritized and one of the rewards for them has been the ability to extend their homegrown talent for massive discounts. I have long thought that more than the pure accumulation of talent, Houston’s group of players (led by Altuve) have the makeup that allows their whole to exceed the sum of their parts and that has been the real key to their success. Jose Abreu has long had a huge reputation for being a similar type of player. Players who are immensely talented but are naturally able to remain humble and focused. That could be something that Brown can continue or even enhance.
Now that we have a real GM, does anyone think he will try to pull off something big before spring training or is it just about getting to know the organization between now and ST?
There is some misinformation out there. Crane is actually a big believer in analytics. He learned a lot from Luhnow, and then after the scandal, Crane became more involved in the team and really fell in love with analytics and scouting. I have posted about it before, but the guys in the analytical department and Sarah Geles have said that they were really surprised how well he understands advanced analytics and that he asks really good questions. As for Brown, I know less about him but I know that the Braves rely heavily on analytics and that Brown essentially developed a process over the last few years to measure and rank players and certain analytics are a big part of that. I agree with you on finding a market inequality, but I think it extends beyond the field - I think it starts in the front office too. That is why I don't think Click fit in. He didn't become a cog in the machine, he wanted to replace the whole machine. For all the criticism of Crane prior to owning the Astros, he has shown a willingness to hire anyone regardless of race, gender, sexuality and background. The Astros are possibly the most progressive team in baseball in that way. However, what all these people have in common is competitiveness, a ruthless desire for outcome over sentimentality and they all tend to work really well together.
I have heard NOTHING other than Crane REALLY liked Brown more than any other candidate... my guess is that Brown and Baker will talk and Brown will try to make a lower cost risk/cost move for another arm. There are a lot of guys out there..... I know that some in the front office want Minor if they can convince him to pitch from the pen.
