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New GM: Dana Brown

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Htown Legend, Jan 26, 2023.

  1. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    What if Maldy breaks down or is just absolutely done. He had a 400 ops going into aJuly last year I think when he went on a hot streak to go from one of the worst performers ever to just bottom of the barrel bad, and they made a trade at the deadline when it was obvious Lee was not going to get it done. They view this as a very real potential problem, it’s ok for you to admit that it’s a very real potential problem.

    There’s not a single number that shows Maldy as special on defense. We aren’t winning because of Maldy. Having Maldy doesn’t mean we can’t win, obviously, but we upgraded 2 years ago with Castro, traded at the deadline for catcher and kicked the tires on everyone that was really good this off-season. It’s the only thing really worth being potentially panicked about.
     
  2. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    I don't know how many times this point is made and some people just don't get it.

    The Astros don't necessarily think Maldy is elite at defense.

    They think he is elite at other aspects of the game that are not measured by stats or seen in the result of plays.

    He game plans
    He breaks down film
    He manages the pitchers
    He chooses pitches
    He understands individual hitters and how to attack them
    He communicates
    He adjusts on the fly.

    The Astros view these things as 70% of what a perfect starting catcher needs to be.

    Actually playing defense is 25% hitting is 5%.

    That makes Maldy 75%+ of the perfect catcher for them.

    Any catcher that is a silver slugger and gold glover but without those skills is still very far behind him.
     
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  3. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    You are talking about a pitching coach dude.
     
  4. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    Some will never understand this
     
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  5. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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  6. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    Tell that to the Astros not me. I just pay attention.
     
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  7. Marshall Bryant

    Supporting Member

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    Agreed. I might not agree, but that's how the Astros feel. If you were trying to get a measurable, you'd have to look at pitcher production stats to see how the catcher affects them. It's not too different than defensive stats in the 70s before newer metrics and data collection were widespread.
     
  8. Marshall Bryant

    Supporting Member

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    Or a catching coach. And this is precisely where I hope Maldy goes for us when his playing days winds down.
     
  9. Marshall Bryant

    Supporting Member

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    #389 Marshall Bryant, Feb 16, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2023
  10. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    If it had value they would be able to point to it. It doesn't. It's just superstition otherwise. They traded him away once. They've actively worked to upgrade the position multiple times since bringing him back. Catcher is a position where there are probably only 5-8 guys who can do it enough better than the other guys to make a big difference (offensively). If it's all sort of a bucket of suck (which the position can be at the big league level) then you don't have to get too wound up about not being worst and can ascribe magic fairy dust to the "respected veteran" and go from there. I bet we see an upgrade b/c the new boss seems to care about the catcher position and doesn't just wash his hands at the idea of improving it. The Astros don't think Maldonado is the bestest of the best that ever bested, they are comfortable with him, which is a different thing altogether than saying defense matters 20% and the bat matters 5% and what we are really looking for his a guy to study film and chart batters out. That's what the nerd cave is for.
     
  11. BlindHog

    BlindHog Member

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    “These guys should retire here. They should be Houston for life.” Remember when this was the sentiment regarding Biggio and Bagwell? Remember how that turned out? It eventually drug the team down to an all time low and forced a massive rebuild. I would like to see both of our current star infielders retire here but am not willing to wait till the team gets in that shape again. Altuve and the team are probably best served by Jose playing out his contract and retiring. Bregman could probably be extended for a couple of more years but it is an issue I would not like to address for at least another season or two to see if it still looks like a good idea.[/QUOTE]
     
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  12. Major

    Major Member

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    And that's exactly how Maldy has been described - a pitching coach on the field. You seem to disagree with the Astros, and that's fine, but let's not pretend like the Astros don't value him massively despite his bat. He was brought to the Astros, let go - and management admitted it was a mistake - and then brought back again. He has been valued highly by Luhnow and Click, Hinch and Baker, and Crane. It's similar to when quarterbacks have the cerebral leadership and are considered coaches on the field - they can dissect things in real-time and make adjustments on the fly.
     
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  13. Major

    Major Member

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    This is nonsense. This is not fantasy baseball. There are things we know have value that can't be measured - they are literally called intangibles. Some of those things will be measurable in 10 years; some won't. Just like we measure things today that weren't measurable 10 years ago.
     
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  14. Screaming Fist

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    I think Chandler is in love with Brown.
     
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  15. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    That makes two of us.
     
  16. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    People give him waaaaaaay too much credit for our pitching. Vasquez was the dude that caught the no hitter in the WS, not Maldy. Why? Because Christian Javier is freaking awesome. None of the guys were significantly better with Maldy in a sample size that mattered. If the skill does not show up in keeping runs off the board then what the hell is the point of the skill? You either increase your scoring or you suppress their scoring if you want to help your team win games as a full time player. Point me to anything that shows me he does either of those traits at an above average level. It's all anecdotal. I've worked with an been around a lot of athletes. You should absolutely listen to them when they talk about somethings (usually technical and related to the game). You should absolutely ignore them when they talk about other things (usually big picture macro stuff).
     
  17. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    I will drop all talk of catcher until we move on from Maldy through a trade to take a victory lap or he catches 110 games again and the Astros go all the way with him again and I will take the L. My contention is that they do not value him nearly as much as everyone here seems to think that they do or they would not have made so many attempts to supplant him. They are comfortable with him and he doesn't cost a ton and will be perfectly happy to move on from him under the right circumstances.
     
  18. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member

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    I agree with this. I think the Astros are always looking to improve, but will always be looking for value. The added offense from Contreras or Perez is something they are willing to pay for, but they were not comfortable with the price tag. Same thing with Springer and Correa. It’s hard to argue with how well they construct the roster and the fact that they have been the best organization in baseball since 2017. I’ll continue to trust their brain trust more than even the most knowledgeable of fans. It would be really cool to have a nine deep lineup, but what if it costs us Tucker, Bregman, or Valdez? Whether you believe in the current financial system and rules (indentured servitude, in your words) or not, the Astros are really good at making these decisions, and, I expect them to be WS contenders at least through 2027.
     
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  19. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    [/QUOTE]

    A lot of it is that Dana knows the right things to say, and he is saying them.
    Hard to know how people truly feel about things these days.

    Can you imagine what the fallout would be if he had said they shouldn't retire here?
     
  20. Marshall Bryant

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    A lot of it is that Dana knows the right things to say, and he is saying them.
    Hard to know how people truly feel about things these days.

    Can you imagine what the fallout would be if he had said they shouldn't retire here?[/QUOTE]
    Brown is exercising the art of committing to nothing while saying nice things generally. We want you to retire here (if we can work out a satisfactory deal.) The player hears we want you to retire here and his agent hears if we can work out a deal. It's a great skill to have. Those without this skill tend to play things close to the vest and limit communication so they are not misunderstood. Not doing this leads to termination (Click).
     
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