Nets trade Marcus Williams to Golden State for a 1st?

Point guards picked between 15-22 over the last 10 years:

Crittenton
Rondo
Robinson
Jack
Telfair
Nelson
Planinic
Welsh
Dixon
B Armstrong
Claxton
W Avery
Drew
Lue

That list doesn't make for great reading...

You're not looking at all-stars in that range at that position, that's for sure!

If all Marcus Williams produces for the Warriors is his career average, then he's right on track to be a plain old average mid first round PG.
Pick not wasted.

If he pans out even a little bit better than expected, then they'll be cheering.

Is he going to the Warriors to start? I would've thought Ellis/ Jackson/ Maggette would've been their starting 1,2,3?

Williams >> CJ Watson - AND they can still use Al Harrington as trade bait!

 

LMAO.

I can find a bunch of PGs in 2nd round that're better than your teen picks. Also, I think many on your list are better than M Williams.

I am sorry. ~38% FG% & > 2:1 AST/TO ratio dont spell "backup PG" for me. I am sure it's good 4 you.

 

How many backup PGs in the NBA shoot 38% or better from 3pt land (making more than 1 per game ) and have a better than 2:1 assist: turnover ratio while dishing more than 2 assists per game?

Just make me a list?

 

Thing is, Marcus Williams will almost by default be their starting PG. Who else do they have on that roster to play PG now that Nellie is gone?

I'm sorry, but a starting PG who shoots below 40% from the field, despite a good 38% 3p average for one year, AND doesn't have a 2:1 ass/to at the minimum, isn't gonna cut it. Especially in the West.

Heck, even Rafer, despite his bad shooting numbers, has consistently had a better ass/to ratio.

 

My bad, it should be Baron Davis, not Nellie.

That was an embarassing slip =x

 

The 'other' guy to play PG is surely Monta Ellis?

If they aren't looking at him to play PG, then how do their 'big 3' fit together? Ellis, Jackson, Maggette?

Ellis played PG in 06-07 and was pretty effective as the backup to Davis (16ppg 4.1 apg).

Or perhaps the Warriors are looking to trade Jackson now? But one would think they'd want to bring back a legitimate PG if they were to give a huge scorer.

So Williams (most likely) will be a backup (of course, Nellie ball has all sorts of surprises - Maggette at centre??)
As a backup, his numbers are perfectly reasonable (ie: there's a reason he's not a starter...)

And just for the record, Rafer Alston consistently has a very good A:TO ratio! That's why Van Gundy wanted him...

 

I knew what ya meant

And I forgot to say that I agree - those are terrible numbers for a starter (if that's his job?)

We'll see how he goes I guess!

 

Rafer has a good ass/to ratio. That's why he's starting for a Western playoff squad. And even so, we already slate him for his poor shooting. So if Marcus Williams has similar shooting numbers, but a worse ass/to ratio, logically speaking, doesn't that make him worse than Alston, who is already a questionable starting point guard despite his solid floor-general abilities?

As for how the big 3 would play together, I highly expect Nellie to go with a lineup of Biedrins, Jackson, Maggette, Ellis and Williams for a large chunk of the time. If you remember, they got away with playing largely the same lineup last year with 1 pivot and 4 outside players in Harrington, Jackson, Ellis, Davis and Biedrins.

As for Ellis starting at PG...I shall reserve my judgement on that. Ellis is not a PG by any stretch of imagination. Baron Davis, for all his chucking habits, is a capable floor-general. Ellis is just about a midget SG. Think Luther Head on steroids with less outside shooting and much better athleticism. I don't think he can handle full-time PG duties setting up his teammates while still finding his own shot.

 

We'll see if he starts!

And if he does, my bold prediction is that he eclipses his previous seasons shooting numbers.

 

If he does, good for him.

Either way, Golden State has a big mountain to climb. I'm not even sure if they're better than the Nuggets minus Camby or the Clippers who've added Davis, Camby and Azuibuike to their squad.

 

Looks like you're somewhat correct about Krstic...and it appears to be a $ issue...

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2008/07/nets_krstic_appear_to_be_parti.html

But I think we can agree, if Nenad's departure opens up a roster spot, the Nets have a bigger hole to fill than what can be provided by Hayes, Head, or BJax.

 

Most of ya'll are missing some points.

#1) Marcus Williams is only 22. He has played poor at times, and solid at times. PG is one of the hardest spots to adjust and NJ has had a lot of change since he has been there. They also have one of the better young PGs already, so if MW grow out of just being a back-up PG, there isn't much of a role for him.

#2 It is a conditional 1st rounder. If GS plays well, and MW is a part of that, it is a late 1st rounder. If GS becomes horrible for a couple years and MW is a part of that, they may only have to give up two 2nds. At worst (and probably most probable), we are taking mid to late teen pick. Hardley bad considering #1)

I personally like what GS has done, particularly given the surprise with Davis leaving. In with Maggette, Randolph, Turiaf, Evans, Williams, out with Pietrus, Barnes, Azubike (post Davis). Also remember Wright and Beidrons are very young. Ellis is too. I think if things break as they may Ellis becomes a solid starting PG (hey if Tony Parker can be a PG, why not Ellis) and their young bigs develop (Randolph, Wright, Biedrens)--this team will be fighting for the 8th seed with the Blazers and Nugs. Sure they are going to need to revamp their style some, but they should no longer be the smallest and weakest rebounding team in the league. They lose some areas and gain in others, just have to see how it all plays out, but I def don't think they can be written off.

 

It's a good trade for both teams but I'd give the edge to the Nets. Williams still have PLENTY of time to develop into a good-to-great PG but the Nets have Devin Harris (who's pretty young himself) and the summer of 2010 to chase.

 

You may be right about Marcus Williams but I am indeed writing off the Warriors for the playoffs this coming season. I also think Monta Ellis compares better to Leandro Barbosa more than Tony Parker when it comes to PG skills.

Do you honestly believe the Warriors have a chance to finish with a better record than Portland?

 

Well I wouldn't be suprised if Ellis has more assists than TP next year. Parker's best year was 6.1APG, and career average is 5.5. A career average of 2.2 A/TO is also very mediocre for a PG. Also remember TP's struggles early on at PG, and Pop actually pulling him in some big moments. IMO TP is at best average as a set up guy and managing a team, he is a well above average PG however because of his finishing skills and shot selection (both very very good). It is his strengths and creativity in the latter that have allowed him to become a quality PG, not the typical mold of a set up man/team manager 1st who becomes even more effective by working a lot on his shot and learns good shot selection later.

Ellis meanwhile had 3.9 assists last year and a 1.7 ratio despite playing SG next to one of the best set up men in the league. He could bomb with that kind of load of running an offense, but might not either. Further, with Jackson and Maggette on the wings, two guys who also can make plays and break down defenses, I don't think it will all fall on him.

Barbosa on the other hand averages 2.8APG in his career. He showed flashes of being a PG two years ago but regressed mightly last year. Despite his enormous skills, he has confidence, focus and control issues that Parker just doesn't have. Parker at least became average to slightly above average in the mental approach allowing his athletic skills to shine, Barbosa is way way below average in the mental approach.

Where Ellis falls? Who knows for sure in a new role. But my hunch says more like Parker than Barbosa.

Chance, absolutely. If I was handicapping the 8th seed in the West I'd have Denver and Portland neck and neck, but the Warriors not far behind (assuming Ellis and Biedrens resigned of course). I def think they should be ahead of Sac, and without question LAC, OK, Minn, Mem. So yeah they have an outside shot at the playoffs. This is a 90 win team over the last two years who lost a huge force but who added some other quality vets (and rebouding and potentially an interior defensive presence) and has really young high quality talent in the backcourt and front court. I would say the other thing they have that Portland has a questionmark on is veteran talent (Jackson, Maggette, Harrington). Portland has great young talent across the board, as much as anyone, but do they have the glue when things get tough, and in the West things will get tough?

 

Do you honestly believe they have no chance of finishing with a better record than Portland?

Of the teams that made the playoffs last season, Denver looks the most likely to miss out this season.

Obviously Portland made some good strides with their draft (and technically, last years draft with Oden set to play). But I imagine they'll have some teething issues at stages (particularly with Bayless).

The Warriors lost their best player in Davis, but picked up Maggette, Turiaf, Williams and Evans. That gives them something they didn't have much of in the past: veteran depth.

It'll be a close run thing between the 3 teams, but if the Warriors hit 48 wins again, they'd be unlikely to miss the playoffs. To do that, they simply have to stand pat. Somehow Portland has to find 7 more wins to draw level.

Portland looks more likely - but I won't be shocked to see the Warriors with a better record!

Gonna be a heckuva ride in the West this season - and injuries will play a huge part!

 

You have the stats to back it up Desert Scar, but from watching the Warriors...I'm not so sure that Ellis leans more towards Parker than Barbosa. Yes, Parker IS a scoring PG. But he also makes generally good decisions with the ball, and can set up guys adequately well enough on the team. I'd say he just about knows when he should take things himself, and when he should drop the ball off to Duncan and Gino and the other guys. Don't forget that playmaking duties is also shared with Ginobili when he's on the court.

Ellis on the other hand...let's just say, I haven't seen that kind of playmaking edge nor have been given even that kind of vibe from his play. I do think he's a better playmaker than Barbosa, but I doubt that he's closer to Parker too.

For sure, he has speed and handles and finishing ability comparable to Parker. Maybe even a more consistent mid-range shot. But I don't think he makes as good decisions with the ball as Tony Parker does.

Then again, he's young, so he might eventually turn out similar. But as for this coming season, I'm skeptical.

One thing's for sure. Whether or not the Warriors creep into the playoffs this season will depend on their PG play from either Ellis or Williams.

 

ageed!

He's still young enough to 'learn' the point, but has those natural scoring instincts that might be tough to curb.

It might just work in Nellie-ball anyway - it's all about creating mismatches anyway, so a 'bring it up and simply dump it off' approach might work anyway? (ie - he wouldn't need to create, simply to carry the ball over halfcourt before passing to the 'scorer')

 

I think GS should retain Ellis at all costs. I don't think he can be a effective point but they should look for another PG next year. Getting Mo Evans is a nice move too,he can be an athletic defender with some scoring ability and can backup Monta if he eventually moves back to the SG spot. If Randolph does well,Brandon Wright can be used as bait to get a PG from the draft or in a trade for Raymond Felton if the Bobcats decide to go that way. Al Harrington for Kirk Hinrich might work too.

 

Man, u r really a show.

This M Williams dude's overall FG% is 38%. How many 3 pointers can he jerk off until he shoots his team out of the game?

U want a name, I give u a name - Chris Duhon (38th overall 2nd round pick). FG% .387% AST/TO ratio 3.2 : 1.

And you know what I call Duhon - a scrub, a typical backup PG.

If M Williams cant improve his FG% or his AST/TO ratio to better than 2:1, hel will be out of this league in a couple of seasons.