Don't have a dog in this fight, but my two cents FWIW ... I think that Pistons team is the most anomalous title team of my NBA fandom (starting 1991) The only one in 40 years to not feature a single HoF player in his prime They're identity was that they had 4 almost-stars that contributed equally to team success Meaning on any given night the best Piston could be Billups or Sheed or Rip, or even occasionally Ben dominating the paint to lead the way I could also argue the ugly Shaq-Kobe divorce decided that Finals more than anything done by a Piston The only other elite team I can recall built this way was that 60-win Hawks squad that had 4 All-Stars but no superstar, and they didn't even reach the Finals In their title season, Billups was the leader on the floor and had the best individual season, so I guess I'd vote for him as best that year Billups peak was brief and he never held the title as best PG in the league, never won MVP, and it could be argued he is the worst alpha to win a ring in the past 4 decades He was a collosal bust in BOS as the #3 pick consolation prize after the lotto gods did not reward their tank for Duncan Then he was dumped and rebuilt his game as Melo's sidekick in DEN, until they decided fading Iverson was an upgrade Finally reaching his potential 5-6 years into his career , on his third team, he did become a top-5 PG Made a couple AllStar teams and got some MVP votes, but even then he was never thought of in the same class as Kidd, Paul, Nash, etc Then his prime ended just as abruptly, with a pretty steep decline in his 30s as a rotation piece to bookend a largely disappointing career, sandwiched around a well-timed flash of brilliance in the middle I would vote Sheed as the most talented player on that squad, and the guy who had the best career of the 4 stars, despite his sabotaging outburts He was decent as a rookie top-5 pick buried behind Webber and Juwan on the Bullets Then became a critical piece of that super-deep Blazers contender that similarly had several stars, but no true superstar in his prime to lead the way He spent the majority of his career as a core player on multiple perennial playoff teams, something none of the other 3 can claim outside of their time together in DET Ben was the DEF anchor and dirty work guy, but was so limited on OFF that I consider him a super-role player rather than a true star He also timed his peak very well as the default AllStar Center from the East in the worst era for elite Centers I've ever seen Once the great C's of the 90s had faded out, it was basically Shaq in the West, Zo in the East, and young Dwight waiting to unseat Ben In no other era would Ben have qualified as a top-5 Center, especially at PF size 6'9" Hell even Zydrunas Ilgauskus was an AllStar back then Ben was Rodman lite with a few blocks mixed in, and a great attitude Rip was also more of a super-role player than a true star Reggie Miller lite was a one-trick pony, curling around screens to unleash a deadly midrange jumper Never developed the rest of his game as playmaker, outside shooter, finisher, or defender Still, he also did occasionally led the team to victory as the best player a few games that season Largely irrelevant outside of his DET years, and for me, clearly the 4th most important on the team
I view Sheed as extremely versatile big. From his numbers, he was a star for sure but nothing more. I would rank Pau Gasaul way ahead of him, although I like the former for teambuilding purposes. Hell, even Chris Wood has better offensive numbers but I would still take Sheed any day. Those Pistons guys were tough as nails. They were so good on Defense that they only averaged around 93 or 95 ppg on Offense, unheard of in this era. Tells you that a system can a championship with very good system players. Similarly the 80s Bad Boys who were two notches better. #MeanStreak
Whoops ... that Billups section had several errors upon further inspection Chauncey actually played for 9 teams, and was traded midseason 4 times That doesn't happen to true stars He was dumped mid-rookie season to TOR after sucking so bad in BOS ... I cannot recall another top3 pick busting out so fast Then, he spent 2 years doing nothing for the Knicks before finally blossoming in DET So it actually took 7 seasons, and his fifth team, before he was anything more than a rotation player The last 5 years were similar to the opening chapter, as he reverted back to being a journeyman rotation piece So Billups career was mostly spent NOT as a star, or anything close He had a nice 5-year prime that included 5 AS nods, 3 All-NBA, a few MVP votes, and a title Basically Jrue Holiday without the Freak I stand by Sheed as being the most talented guy on that team with the best career overall But he was their wildcard Xfactor Billups was their leader and best player of that era
This LOL there is nothing Sengun does that is Better than Banchero and why would I care about on off splits in one game when I watched the entire game? The fact that you feel the need to reach for on off stats is very telling, you want to do on off stats for the Memphis big who scored 14 points while being in foul trouble?
We have clear evidence that one prospect is a clearly better defender than the other - that's the strength of Chet's game along with his upside offensively. Banchero is limited defensively to the 4 spot and he doesn't always give much effort on that end. But defense really isn't what the conversation is about, the question is who is the better prospect - lets explore that. Who's the better defender? - Chet. Who's the better rebounder? Chet. Who's the better offensive player ? Chet. Chet's shooting splits 70/40/74/E.695 Banchero's shooting splits 47/31/72/E.593 Chet is getting an efficient 15/10 while being a 3rd option - That's Drew Timme's team. The offense runs thru Timme and Andrew Nembhard averages more shots per game than Chet. Banchero is Duke's #1 option. I agree with this - picking based on fit with Sengun would be silly. He hasn't proven to be a franchise cornerstone. I don't know if Banchero is ultimately the better player, I think they are fairly similar. Neither is a plus athlete, neither is a good shooter from distance, neither is a great defender, both are good passers. The only real difference is where they get their shots - Alpi in the restricted area and Banchero makes a living in the mid range. 100% agree .... I don't draft for fit - I take the best player and I think that's Chet by a pretty wide margin. I have Ivey at #2 on my board .... if we didn't land Chet I take Ivey at 2 or beyond - Green or no Green.
I agree that the Pistons are the most unusual champion in many decades. However, Chauncey Billups will be in the Hall of Fame and if you look at his advanced numbers, you would likely be surprised how good he was. He had a very high WS/48 with the Pistons. His ON/OFF was very high and his VORP. His career comparisons are all Hall of Famers..... So I think it is a case of us not realizing how good he actually was. Chauncey made All NBA Second Team once and All NBA Third Team twice and made the All Defensive team a few times.
However the draft picks end up, I am pretty sure the Pistons will select Banchero. He is their guy So that leaves us with Ivey, Chet or Jabari I am thinking we get 1st or 2nd pick. and go with Ivey or Jabari.... If for some reason we drop to 3 or 4, and Banchero is not picked at 1 or 2, we will pick Banchero or Chet
The stats don’t support your ridiculous claim. Chet dominated defensively. And yes Sengun is better than Paolo, Paolo is 3 months younger than Sengun and has been MVP of a top 3 league and doing special things in the NBA
The good thing is that 1-4 in this draft are very solid players: Ivey, Chet, Jabari, and Paolo are all legit top tier nba prospects. If we don’t fall out of the top 4 we are okay. I think where it gets interesting is #5 and 6. I have Mathurin and Murray at those spots. Both could be great nba players. I don’t see the rockets spending the assets to get two picks in the top 5 or 6, but curious how high others are on Mathurin? Do folks view him as on par with the top 4?
@Corrosion Here are the Synergy Stats for Chet and Banchero (Jabari is in there as well). Make due of them as you will. I think there may be some cognitive bias going on with some guys and who they subjectively feel is the right player for this team. I disagree with you saying that Chet is a better offensive player than Banchero. I would agree if you would have stated it as "Chet is a better 3 point shooter than Banchero" because thats really all he does better on that side of the ball over Paolo currently. Even when you gloss over defensive metrics they would tell you that the eye test is not properly valuing the defensive impact a guy like Paolo offers and if there is "upside" on offense with Chet moving forward that same thought process has to exist for Banchero and his defense. https://imgur.com/gallery/zDLMI3B
The s The stats show that 2 lesser big men scored 22 points and grabbed over 12 rebounds inside against Chet and one of those guys scored double than he usually does but somehow he dominated defensively? Most of Memphis points were scored in the paint, but somehow he dominated defensively. Paolo is going to be a top 5 pick in a very deep draft and Sengun went 18th just last year, so Paolo is the better prospect point-blank, but we all know facts and common sense means little to you and your need to troll me. You really need to find better use of your time than continually trying to bait me because you have an unnatural attraction for a guy that you never met and will probably never affect your life in any substantial way. Do better my guy.
Sengun went 16th in a much deeper draft. You know in this thread there is a breakdown of Chet vs Memphis, he dominated them on defense. I know you’re a little slow and can only use the counting numbers in front of your face but the data is there. Chet and Sengun are far superior than Paolo. And no one is baiting you, you have terrible takes that have to be responded to. Can’t let stupidity take over on this board.
Honestly I see them as very similar prospects .... Neither are explosive athletes , neither great shooters from outside and neither are strong defenders and both are very good passers and above average ball handlers for their positions. Both are relatively efficient in what they do - Sengun in the post and Paolo in the mid range. Both have to improve their 3 point shooting and overall defense. If pressed, I'd have to say that Banchero is "a little more polished" as a player than Sengun .... but Sengun plays with more effort.
Chet averages 1 rebound better than Banchero and is asked to do far less than Banchero and is in the paint more on defense. How the hell do you think a guy whose gets 80% of his shots from spot ups, baskets on the break or straight line drives is a better offensive player There is not going to be one actual scout that will think Chet is a better offensive player than Paolo and Paolo is a better playmaker than Chet at this point. If you think Chet is better by a large margin that's great but you don't get to ignore things and make claims that are not substantiated to claim a fact. Paolo is asked to do far more than Chet and is the hub the offense but somehow you think shooting splits tell the entire story. That's very intellectually lazy of you, I guess you think Maxey and Harris are just as good offensively as Embid right since those efficiency numbers are about the same. Banchero has a much more developed game than Sengun but I agree they are similiar, Paolo is just more refined at this point.
Sengun is doing it against grown men. He’s also a much better facilitator. The rest I agree with. I like Paolo, but he’s overrated by a few here.
Just because there is a breakdown does not mean ****, especially because you think Chet compares to KG because some random once said it on the internet. You are so starved for my attention that you think I will defend Paolo to all ends of the earth like you do with Chet. I have no problem debating the merits, I just will not get into a back and forth with a lonely troll like you, everybody knows you feel about Chet . Why do you keep trying to engage me anyway, are you that lonely? Get a life, my guy, over 50% percent of your post on this board is you slurping Holmgren in some way and or trying to bat me into engaging with you. Not healthy, my guy.
Calm down. Make sure to take your blood pressure pills. That rando was Chad Ford. You want to ignore stats except the ones that support your narrative. Slurping Chet? That’s rich coming from the guy that has so much Italian sausage down his throat he can’t breathe
Pretty much every stat. Chet is more efficient, better shooter, better defender. Almost every advanced stat And there’s a break down of when Chet was on the court and who he defended in this thread. Look it up. You keep saying their big man scored more points, but it wasn’t against Chet
