NCAA Tournament Prospect Tracker

i think I sensibly made that argument, you just don’t agree. Which is fine.

 

I pretty much agree with a lot of what you are saying.

However, Banchero seems to be fine off ball but I wouldn't want to develop him that way. He'd only reach his potential with a much higher usage than the Magic are willing to give him imo. On the Rockets he could be the primary play initiator, but I don't see how that works on the Magic. I believe he'd have a better chance of reaching his potential on a team like the Rockets. Between Cole, Suggs and Banchero the spacing would be pretty terrible for all of them. Maybe that would improve in time but as it stands it would hamper what each of them can do with the spacing provided and it would force them to play away from a lot of their strengths.

The magic probably feel like they have a star guard in Cole Anthony based on his scoring and passing ability especially in the clutch and the impact he made on the magic statistically this year. He is certainly the leader of that team and had stretches of games where he put up really good numbers. Suggs was their #5 pick last year in what was considered a stronger draft class. Considering he was injured a good part of last year, I'm not sure they've given up on him.

I think Jabari is probably the safest pick because we know he presumably can shoot and play defense. That is enough for a good role player in the NBA. If you look at the roster they have a lot of young talent in place, taking Jabari would improve the spacing for their guards and you wouldn't have to worry about maximizing his development by taking the ball away from other young promising talent. Defensively having Franz Jabari Isaac would be one of the more switchable front courts in the entire league. Did I mention the Magic desperately need shooting?

We can agree Banchero is our favorite guy in the draft but if scouts really believe it is that close between the 3, I would think fit with other young talent would be a consideration as well as maximizing the potential of the pick and all young players involved. I think the holes in Jabari's game limits his ceiling quite a bit in my opinion but in the right role, I don't think it affects his floor too much.

 

Ok.

So you think it's sensible to think you have just as good a chance to get an NBA player at 34 as 17?

Yeah, I definitely disagree with that.

 

This. Teams like the Thunder and Magic acting like they have a Cade Cunningham or Jalen Green on the roster. Checked in the Magic sub-reddit and they're of the belief that Fultz and Wagner will be their primary scoring options. One person said they didn't need Banchero because Wagner offers what Banchero does and more.

I guess I remember when the Rockets were a 41-41 team full of role players, running on the mediocrity treadmill because we didn't have a star. Thats what the Magic and Raptors are going to end up being for a while.

 

Check out Cole's impact on the magic statistically this year. It is quite significant. He's their leader and put up all star numbers before he got injured and then was pretty trash coming off that injury. I'm sure the Magic want to see what they have and I dont think its unrealistic he can average 20 and 8 pretty soon. If you don't believe in Banchero, I can actually see why you'd think Wagner could do the same thing plus more. He's got a pretty decent feel as a developing playmaker, shoots the 3 at a higher clip and was statistically the best wing defender in the draft last year iirc. I'd still go Paolo every day of the week.

 

I didn’t argue that exact point, but you can still get a rotation guy at 34 if you draft well enough. Obviously you have a better chance at 17. You are moving the goal post here. I’m just arguing this trade is reasonable if the front office believe Jabari/Chet to be in a tier above Paolo. I have no idea if that’s the case or not.

 

I just disagree that Banchero needs to be primarily on the ball to maximixe his potential and I think even off the ball he would make a bigger impact than the other 2 guys.

No teams have many primary ball handlers anymore why can Tatum and Brown thrive playing with each other when Smart is the primary ball handler?

Why can't Suggs be 3rd in the pecking order if the other 2 guys are better being primary scorers?

Once again the Magic were neck and neck with us for the worst record so why should they get more guys that 'fit?"

I believe you pick the best talent and figure it out as you go along when you are a team that bad.

Yes Banchero is my favorite but stop acting like my arguments are based only on that.

Why did Boston pick Tatum when they already had Brown essentially play the same position?

 

You have no reason to believe that Houston thinks Jabbari or Chet is a tier above Banchero, would it be sensible if I start using the same argument for Ivey since he has been mocked some to OKC?

I am not moving any goalpost once again you are still saying you can get a rotational at 34, yeah you can but you can get an all-star at 17.

In no way is this trade reasonable but if you want to die on that hill I am going to let you.

I'm done.

 

The spacing would be atrocious. That isn't good for the development of any of those guys.

I don't really see Smart as the primary play initiator, he's in more of a Jrue Holiday role for the Celtics the way I see it. Tatum is a forward and Brown is more of a Guard/Forward. I don't think it's a terrible fit between the two.

Just curious did you watch a lot of Magic games last year? Suggs and Fultz specifically aren't really great off ball at all. When Cole is out there the entire offense is run through him and WCJ. They run so much pick and roll it makes other NBA teams look like they are playing street ball. Cole plays much more in the role of a traditional point guard than Marcus Smart will ever be. That goes for Fultz as well.

If the consensus was that there was separation between the 3, I'd take the best guy no doubt. We both know that isn't the case though. Not saying it will but hopefully some of those factors make them lean Jabari. Otherwise I have a feeling he's Rockets bound.

 

Actually, I can see him being redundant with Wagner but I still think Banchero is the far superior player and it's like people can't see these guys as good depth.

It's also amazing how people keep arguing fit when teams are this bad.

 

Maybe the Magic believe that Cole will move into a Darius Garland like level and become an All Star. Or Suggs will. Basketball is a simple game. 5 guys dribble a ball against 5 other guys and the team with the best player usually wins. I feel like this post-Morey age of analytics driven basketball has clouded the reality which has always existed in the NBA: my players are more unstoppable than yours. It really is that simple. And a team with Cole Anthony, Jalen Suggs, Jabari Smith and Franz Wagner isn't scaring anyone.

Paolo Banchero and Jalen Green? Totally different story.

 

It's a little different because the Magic have been building a few years now. They have a lot of young talent in place and they might want to pick a guy they feel can maximize that talent best while getting the highest return on their pick. I also think they want to start winning sooner than later. Its really hard for me to consider Paolo the best off ball of the 3 until he can show he can most importantly defend as well as the other two or shoot as well as the other 2 from 3.


I'd still take BPA because GMs are notorious for doing this and drafting for fit and that is where you can make major mistakes. It's not like it doesn't happen every year though. This isn't what I would do but what the Magic brass might do. At any rate Banchero isn't the consensus #1 pick so its kind of a moot point if you think about it.

 

Paolo and Green is a match made in heaven on offense. Thats why its so scary.

 

My point was that no great teams have primary play initiators they have multiple guys and I think Banchero could be better than anybody on the Magics roster so all of those guys would have to fit with him do you see any of those guys being the franchise guy?

I think Jrue and Smart are similar players with Jrue having more juice offensively and Smart being a better playmaker.

No, I have not watched Cole at the Magic a lot but he has always seemed more of a scoring than playmaking guard.

The great thing about Banchero is that he can play both parts as a pick and roll guy.

 

Cole has become a really fantastic playmaker especially out of pick and roll. Again I'm in agreement with everything you are saying. I just don't know with the way those other guys play if they can actually take more of an off ball role. Would the magic be willing to completely rebuild around Paolo? Or would it be better to take a player that doesn't change the highly ball dominant roles of those other guys or force them into roles they are really bad at that stunts their development. If they took Jabari they could keep everything in place and still get a high upside prospect that gives you your biggest need. Shooting. The added spacing would allow those ball dominant young guards to thrive.

Also I can see your point about position less basketball and more play initiators on a team. To me Paolo is best suited as a primary playmaker. If he’s the on the Magic as a secondary playmaker it’s fine, but I think in time Franz will have the ability to act as a secondary playmaker.

 

I think you get the highest reward with Banchero no matter who else is on the team, for some reason it seems Banchero's perceived weaknesses keep getting brought up but not the other 2 guys.

Nobody talks about Issac when it comes to other guys especially Chet isn't that redundant?

 

It was a trade from a bleacher report mock, I was just defending that position. We should be able to argue different points of view from our own. I’m pretty agnostic on the whole idea myself, but it’s certainly an interesting possibility.

 

I think for me it’s more about the weakness of some of the other young players the Magic have. They’ve put a lot of young pieces in place. I’m not sure it would be wise to put them in positions that limit their upside or make them regress. How do you maximize Paolo’s potential if he doesn’t have proper spacing or proper usage. And again if the Magic would make Paolo into a secondary playmaker, I think in time Franz can be that for them. I’m not really the guy to ask though because I’m willing to blow the Rockets to pieces to get Banchero and get him in his best role for potential growth. Keep in mind though Rockets are much earlier in their rebuild and a lot of these GMs start to feel the heat especially with making the young talent they chose be competitive and proving they were worth the investment.

 

Yes, we can argue that's what we have been doing it just in no way makes any sense because nobody thinks any of the 3 guys are separated by any tiers.

So using 17 to move up one pick makes no sense and would be a fireable offense in this draft.