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[nbatv-gary payton] "I think Houston is better without McGrady"

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by tinman, Feb 24, 2009.

  1. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Steve Francis Era vs Tmac Era

    getting past the 1st round of the playoffs - no
    Both players are declining but fans think still they are allstars NOW - yes

    Steve is finished.. I knew he was finished when Portland waived him in favor of Steve Blake

    Steve fiasco - Superbowl trip
    Tmac fiasco - Telling Stephen A Smith first about being out for the year
     
  2. wheelmi

    wheelmi Member

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    Sam was a great role player who has had the benefit of playing with Clyde, Hakeem, Garnett.... well you get the point. I think those guys were the leaders and Sam was the role player riding their coat tails.

    Sure, he is a great Rah Rah guy and there is definatley a place for those guys on championship teams, but are you honestly saying that the success of the Rockets championship teams, and last years Celtics team, and any other team he has been on that did anything in the playoffs was because Sam was the leader?

    If yes, then I think you have bigger issues....
     
  3. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    I put an entire article on how Sam was the leader (CAPTAIN) of the Clippers (Worst franchise ever) and how his teammates (quoted) mentioned his leadership.

    You pick the Celtics as an example? Sam's in his last legs.

    So is Mario Elie not a leader? when he goes to the Spurs and tells David Robinson to man up.

    Having courage to call out other players? its not leadership?

    being CAPTAIN of your team not leadership?

    you buddy boy took my clippers article and turned it into something else.

    Plus Sam has mentioned MANY TIMES how he learned so much from the Rockets day. How he learned about LEADERSHIP.

    Don't test a 99er.
     
  4. HTown_TMac

    HTown_TMac Member

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    LOL Definition of a bonifide Tracy hater... You are the one who brought up stats. If you read BOTH quotes I said look at T-Mac's stats AND SEE HOW FAR THAT GOT HIM after you say check Cassells stats.. Contradicting yourself again..
     
  5. wheelmi

    wheelmi Member

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    I think the point was that you keep beating the TEAM drum, then resort to stats (individual, not team) to prove your point. Not sure what that is the definition of, well actually I have an idea....

    BTW, you should also have thrown up Tracy's stats in the same period of you were going to make an valid argument about stats for a given year. Not sure what they are, except the scoring champ part, but I am sure they are pretty damn good.
     
  6. TMac4Life#1

    TMac4Life#1 Member

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    Steve Francis was done 3-4 years ago. McGrady is still playing. Steve was brought out of his contract because the blazers wanted there team to grow plus they were playing so good they didn't want to mess up the chemistry.

    I keep seeing this superbowl trip and I just want to ask what is wrong with that? Basketball Players can't have lives or something? they are human beings. They are allowed to have a life outside of basketball. McGrady is not done. 29 years old. Its not like he had a major major surgery. If I'm not mistaken didn't they do operate less on his knee than doing more?
     
  7. wheelmi

    wheelmi Member

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    Again missing the point, or ignoring it one??
     
  8. HTown_TMac

    HTown_TMac Member

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    Ok, First, Just because that is the worse franchise in NBA history, doesnt mean that their team sucked.. Secondly, If calling someone out makes you a leader, then T-Mac is one. I've heard him call out people a few times. T-Mac was the captain.
    Your article proved that Cassell had Championship experience and he shared it with teammates, at least thats is what I got.
     
  9. wheelmi

    wheelmi Member

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    Actually, if you read my post, I mention the Rockets, Celtics, and a phrase that included "all other playoff teams"......
     
  10. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    LEADERSHIP

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A02E3DA113BF93AA25757C0A9629C8B63&fta=y

    ROUNDUP: N.B.A. PLAYOFFS; Cassell Shows Timberwolves How to Win in Postseason

    Published: April 19, 2004

    Kevin Garnett and the Minnesota Timberwolves might have finally found their formula for postseason success in a clutch, savvy point guard named Sam Cassell.

    Cassell tied a career high with 40 points, Garnett put up 30 points and 20 rebounds, and the top-seeded Timberwolves beat the Denver Nuggets, 106-92, last night in Game 1 of their first-round series in Minnesota.

    The rookie Carmelo Anthony had 19 points in his postseason debut for the Nuggets, most of them in the second half with his team down by double digits.

    Game 2 is at Target Center on Wednesday night.

    Denver didn't make it easy for Minnesota despite being outrebounded, 48-35, and going 3 for 17 from 3-point range. The Timberwolves, determined to end an N.B.A.-record streak of seven straight series losses in the first round, had their 22-point lead in third quarter whittled to 5 early in the fourth.

    But Cassell helped finish it off, scoring 12 points over the final nine minutes to stave off the Nuggets.
     
  11. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Clutch City was named after that team that won the first title, that included Cassell.

    If that never happened and we named this place after the Tmac era it would be

    CRUTCH CITY
     
  12. wheelmi

    wheelmi Member

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    Wow! Put him in the hall!!

    I guess leadership is having a good (single) game. I am sure that if you dig around the internet, you can find articles similar for many many many players, inlcuding the one you appear hate so much.
     
  13. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    oh you want me to post all the good playoff games Sam Cassell has?

    I want you to comment on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM too.

    get ready pal.
     
  14. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    I can't find the 2nd round 'good games' for Tracy. Can you help me?
     
  15. wheelmi

    wheelmi Member

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    It also included Charles Jones, so what is your point?

    If you are trying to prove your TEAM point, then you are by default justifying the T-Mac era as he never had a TEAM with players of the quality of Cassell, Ellie, Drexler, Horry, Smith (who was a career 48% 3pt shooter in the playoffs), Thorpe, Maxwell, et. al.

    I'll give you Yao, but who else on the past four season, save this season Tracy was injured, compares to those TEAMs?
     
  16. wheelmi

    wheelmi Member

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    You can't make intelligent arguments either!
     
  17. wheelmi

    wheelmi Member

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    While you are at it, post all the good playoff games tracy has had and lets compare buddy boy.
     
  18. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    As I promised for your dissing of Cassell, I will list every good game he has had.. in the 2nd round or later, you can post all the Tmac second round games you want.


    Paper: HOUSTON CHRONICLE
    Date: SUN 05/22/1994
    Section: Sports
    Page: 1
    Edition: 3 STAR

    Rockets 104, Suns 94/BELIEVE IT!/Cassell simply Samsational

    By FRAN BLINEBURY
    Staff

    THE clock was running down, the game was coming to a boil and the air was being sucked out of The Summit like somebody had inserted a vacuum hose. The stands were jumping, the crowd was roaring and the entire season was being compressed into something that would fit into the palm of your hand.

    These are the times when you can almost hear the ball ticking. When some players run from the moment as if it had steel jaws that were getting ready to slam shut. When legs get heavier, when muscles get tighter, when the basket gets smaller.

    The moment came to Sam Cassell with just under five minutes to play on the biggest day of the season. All through the fourth quarter of Saturday's Game 7, the Suns had been putting the heat on the Rockets and it was beginning to feel like an acetylene torch on the back of their necks.

    The ball swung down into the corner and then back outside on the wing. As the seconds melted off the shot clock, the temperature began to rise. If it wasn't the dry heat of Phoenix, it was the humidity of Houston. But everybody in the house was tugging at their collar.

    Everybody, that is, except Cassell.

    Meet the Prince of Clutch City.


    Danny Ainge had just dropped in another 3-point rainbow from the right corner and the Suns were making one last push, trailing only 90-85. But none of that mattered to Cassell.

    He gathered in the pass from Robert Horry and had just enough time to sneak a glance at the clock before he flicked up his shot with the nonchalance of a man trying to hit the ocean from the deck of the QE II.

    It wasn't just a gorgeous 3-pointer that nestled into the bottom of the net as the 24-second clock sounded. It was the last dagger in the heart of the Suns, the mortal wound in the Rockets' 104-94 victory.

    "Big shot?" Cassell asked, repeating the question. "I guess. I just knew the clock was running down and we had to put it in. All I thought was, "Cool. Now let's go back down to the other end and play some defense.' "

    Cool.

    That's Cassell. This is a kid who could teach ice fishing to polar bears.

    No. 24 in the first round of the 1993 draft and the only pick of significance left playing in the 1994 playoffs.

    He's James Bond, only slightly less unflappable. If he weren't playing in the NBA for a living, he could be the member of a demolitions team who is always sent in to defuse the live bomb.

    "I don't think of Sam as a rookie," Hakeem Olajuwon said. "He is just a guy out there having fun. His game is so different than most players. He plays like he's out on the playground. Even though he is a rookie, he still has a lot of confidence in himself. He fits in on this team."

    Like a hand inside a custom-made glove.

    Here is a rookie who should just be happy to be getting his feet wet, jumping head-first into the pool and making the biggest splash. Here is a rookie who played 29 minutes, took 12 shots, made eight of them and finished with 22 points, seven assists and four rebounds.

    Here were the defending Western Conference champion Suns, in the minutes after their dethroning, paying the most homage to two players on the Rockets' roster -- Olajuwon and Cassell.

    Think about it. One of them is a 10-year veteran and the MVP of the league and the other is a kid who was watching last year's playoffs on television.

    "I watched all of the playoffs," Cassell said. "I watched the different teams and I tried to think about putting myself in that position. You know, you think about what it would be like."

    Do you think about the pressure or whether you can measure up?

    "No," Cassell said. "I thought about whether the different teams would need offense or defense or whatever from me. I knew I could play. There was never a doubt."

    He came into the Rockets' training camp and he never acted for a moment like a rookie. Sure, part of his duties are to hand out the Rockets' practice jerseys at the hotel when the team is on the road, but that is the extent of his acting like a newcomer.

    "Max (Vernon Maxwell) and I tried to mess with Sam right from the start," Mario Elie said. "You know, you get a kid in camp and you want to see what he's made of. We talked a lot of trash at him in practice and we tried to do different things to see if he would rattle.

    "He didn't. He would come backing talking just as much as us. And on the court, he had an answer for everything."

    The Suns never found an answer for Cassell, who kept stepping into the breach and fearlessly taking the biggest shots at the biggest of times. Olajuwon's 37 points and 17 rebounds were the blunt object that bashed Phoenix over the head, but Cassell was the stiletto that slipped into their side and made them bleed.

    In the fourth quarter, Cassell shot 3-for-5 from the field and scored nine points. He scored on a layup off a feed from Olajuwon and he worked his way inside the crowd in the lane to grab an offensive rebound and then put back a jumper from the foul line. He fed Olajuwon for a hoop, then he stepped up and made the 3-pointer as the clock ran out. Then Cassell stood on the free-throw line and nailed a pair of free throws that sealed it with 23 seconds left.

    You left thinking somebody needed to take his temperature to be sure Cassell had a pulse. Or at least take his temperature to see if there was anything more than ice cubes clinking around inside his body.

    "I wasn't nervous," he said. "I was tense. It was the playoffs. It was Game 7 and I had to get ready."

    Cassell got tangled with Ainge in his first few minutes on the floor and then he managed to get control of his emotions. He had missed Game 1 of the series because of a suspension after taking a wild punch at Jerome Kersey in the last game against Portland.

    "You have to keep a cool head," he said. "You have to keep your poise. When that happened with Ainge, guys talked to me and I realized I was valuable and had to stay in the game. I apologized to my teammates."

    No apologies necessary.

    Cassell got his head in the game and kept the Rockets in the game. This was a rookie.

    "I don't know how a rookie feels," he said. "I'm a player. I think of myself as an important part of the team."

    Coach Rudy Tomjanovich thought back through the years.

    "I was the No. 2 pick in the whole draft and I didn't make the playoffs in my first year," he said. "But I don't think I ever made two shots in a row. If I made one, I'd have been too excited to make the next one. Sam, he just plays."

    He sat in his locker and he answered all of the questions. He looked up into all of the minicams and he explained it all dozens of times.

    This was big, he was told.

    "Was it?" Sam Cassell said. "Cool."

    So cool. Here in Clutch City.
     
  19. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Ok, the rules are simple. They have to be 2nd round or better.

    Buddy boy.
     
  20. wheelmi

    wheelmi Member

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    While you are at it, post the stats of the second best player (ala Garnett's 30/20 from your previous article) of the game for both players and lets compare that as well, since you are supposedly arguing the TEAM concept, all the while pointing to an individual.

    Success is about the team, not the individual, except when it comes to McGrady on this board. McGrady is apparently satan!!
     

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