[NBA TV] Watching Old All Star Games

Caught one or two last night, and even watch the Bird/Magic documentary on HBO.

Watched the 77, 84, 69, and 72 games, I think.

Things I notice:

Watched the 84, 69, and 72 games. Along with a Bird/Magic documentary on HBO

- (as I've said before) Magic Johnson is by far the greatest point guard ever (his skills went beyond being a traditional point guard). If you replace him on the Lakers with another point guard history, they would not win 5 titles. He made that dynasty happen, along with Buss and West.

- Larry Bird might be unquestionably the greatest forward or small forward ever, the only competition he has at small forward is Dr. J, Hondo, and maybe LeBron and Rick Barry. As a power forward he ranks pretty high, it's tough, it's hard to say if I would take him easily over Duncan and Malone.

- The game is much more fluid from the 80s - present. 80s had the fastest pace, with most efficient. The 90s (and present day) players seem to be most versatile and explosive.

- Talent pool is much bigger now at forward and guard, then in 60s and 70s. As far as guards go, the 80s to present probably have the deepest positions talent wise.

- The physical play is roughly the same, the referees are quick not let things get out of hand, they are more physical fouls, but it's not abnormal. Though, there's way more ticky tack calls now, than then. Not just fouls, but even defensive 3 seconds and few other rules. Still, the goaltending calls tend to be more lenient now than in late 60s and early 70s. I saw alot of Wilt and Kareem clean blocks that weren't near the basket, get sent into the out of bounds, and it was a goaltending call.


- The 80s and 90s had the best shooters, followed by this last decade of players, the 60s had the worst shooters bar none (You can see why the FG% are so low, most of the shots in 69 games were often wide open).

- The game is way more efficient now, offensively and defensively.

- The players play above the rim more now, not as many players seem to be leaving the ground as much then, mostly talking about dunking, rebounding, and shot blocking. I don't see as much explosion from the players, especially in 60s. There are guards or forwards now or in the last 20 years who could average 2 to 3 blks a game.

- Jabbar and Wilt would STILL BE EXCEPTIONAL players in today's game in their prime. Both are fantastic shotblockers (Wilt goes after every shot that comes in his direction as well as even little bit away), and great defenders in general (alot of players are shying away from the basket). Wilt is big, but he is very evenly proportioned (dense muscles and big bones, most likely). His game reminds of me a little of Shaq's. Though Wilt carries his weight better, and is way more nimble in his mid 30s (in breaking down body, this post knee injury Wilt) than Shaq was . He's more in role player mode at this stage, not really looking to score alot, but he might have been the best passing center ever. He can swing the ball anywhere on the court with accuracy. Alot of his game is based on power, yet I can't find too many players currently in the NBA to seriously guard him for 35+ minutes. He's a physical specimen that transcends time.


- The best shooters from the 60s and 70s games, were in this order, Walt Frazier (wow he hit some tough shots), Jerry West, Jimmy Walker, David Thompson, Hondo-John Havlicek, and Rick Barry.


Kareem's offense was probably unstoppable to most players then, maybe even now. He has wide range shots and offensive post moves (turn around jumpers, bank shots, layups from behind basket). He's super nimble and slippery, the only person who I could see matching that in today's game is Dwight Howard. Offensively speaking, Howard has nothing on Kareem, except maybe strength. Even with that, Howard doesn't not seem like he is as strong as Wilt (forget all the tall tales), just looking at the frame of both men and seeing how they use their bodies. I would think Wilt is a stronger player.

- In the 69 and 72, all star game, the players who stood out besides the top 10 players (like Kareem, Wilt, West, and Big O), Bob Love, Gus Johnson (super athletic/decent shooter), Jimmy Walker (good shooter), Lenny Wilkens (very good point guard), Earl Monroe (would be a fantastic point guard in today's game, he played shooting guard for the most part, but he would excel as point guard).

- The borderline all-star player/HOF (players who aren't in yet or were later arrivals), I honestly think most of them would not be all stars, if they were drafted in 80s through 2000s.

Don Kojis, Rudy Larusso, Lou Hudson, Jeff Mullins, Phil Chenier. There's no way they would make a modern all-star team.

Sidney Wicks, Dan Issel, and Wes Unseld were good centers and forwards, then but they would be woefully undersized and mediocre athletes now.


- Jerry Sloan definitely competes with a cheap on his shoulder, he was probably the most focus defender I saw.

http://www.hbo.com/sports/magic-and-bird-a-courtship-of-rivals/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_NBA_All-Star_Game
http://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_1969.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_1977.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_1984.html

 

Watching Phi vs. Portland, Game 6 of the NBA Finals 1977.

Only watched some of LA vs. Portland, Game 4 of the NBA Western Conference Finals 1977.

Watched most of the LA vs. NY, Game 5 of the 1973 Finals.


Things I noticed:

Jerry West is definitely one of the greatest players ever, very clutch shooter with a great range.

Jim McMillan had a pretty good shooting touch.

George McGinnis, you don't hear much about, it's a shame. Nice to see a young Doug Collins.


Julius Erving is one SICK basketball player. I'm not talking just about the dunking, from what I've seen he is good defender, definitely good mid-range shooter, and good rebounder. He ran about half of the link of the court split through two defenders and dunk on a player on under the basket. Even in today's game, very much still dominant forward.

Wilt Chamberlain, again, slowed down by ages and injuries, gets down the court, like a faster than alot of centers in their mid 20s. He finished that game with like 8 or 9 blks, I saw 6 I didn't watch all of it, but the announcer said 8 or 9 blocks for Wilt. He's relentless rebounder.

I'm thinking of larger modern NBA players, like Bynum, Perkins, both Gasols, and other players around 255 and up. Seriously, they cannot move down the court like that. Chamberlain was beating guards and forward down the court. He's virtually tireless, and it's totally believable that he played 48 minutes a game for entire season. Rarely saw him on the bench.

Bill Walton could've been top 5 center, ever without question. He's got wide range post moves and a good shooting touch (a nice bank shot like Kareem). He also passes like a guard as well. Those injuries tore his career apart.

I can officially say that every NBA era has . . . trigger happy guards. Who also like to wait towards the end of shot clock to shoot.

Caldwell Jones was pretty good as well, so is Bob Gross, alot of future coaches in this game (76ers vs. Trailblazers).


I really hate when younger post diss some of these past players, because in few ways they have some advantages some younger players don't.

 

Watched Game 5 of the 1991 Western Conference Semi-Finals, Lakers vs. Warriors:


Wonderful game to watch.

Things I noticed:

- Definitely had the pace of a modern game, little bit more team defense, yet the high scoring is still there.

- Magic was clearly in decline (a shell of what he used to be), but still was the guy that made things happen. The Lakers were also going through a transitional period of sorts. Previously, they had been disposed fairly easy by the Suns in the 90 Playoffs. The Suns were much fresher and even had the big bodies to disturb the Lakers. Divac was coming into his 2nd season, while they certainly needed to draft Campbell at 28. They signed Perkins from Dallas. Ironically, they also traded for Terry Teagle from . . . Golden State.

- Run TMC, might have been one of the greatest backcourts in NBA history, at least top 10. That was their last year together. Don't be surprised, because the Warriors have historically made bad moves, trades and draft picks.

Amongst the modern NBA teams (last 20 years), I haven't seen that many teams who fielded a real solid all star at 3 positions (in their most productive seasons). The Bucks (Cassell, Allen, and Robinson); The Celtics (Rondo, Pierce, Allen); briefly the Mavs (Kidd, Jackson, and Mashburn), and briefly the Lakers (Van Excel, Jones, Kobe).

- As the commentator said, Golden State's lack of size did kill them in that series (like most series). They couldn't matchup with Perkins, Campbell, and Divac. Divac had the flu, but I've seen him play in his younger days. All 3 of those guys have 6,10 and could move like gazelles and with great jumping ability. Perkins could drive to the basket with pretty good dribbling skills, so could Divac. While, Campbell was powerfuly, yet agile around the basket.

- Magic guarding Tim Hardaway, was painful if you were Lakers fan. Awesome for a Lakers' hater or Golden State fans. Hardaway put a light touch on the gas pedal, and Magic was behind him. On the other hand, if Magic backed off too much, 3 pointer or long two.

- Mullin and Richmond were hitting all sorts of crazy shots. At times, they sort of reminded me of what Pierce and Allen would've been like if they play together in their primes. Very hard duo to stop.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/your_turn/news/2001/02/20/sayitaintso_warriors_reax/

 

Watched 1989 Eastern Conference Finals, Game 6 Pistons @ Bulls


Things I noticed:


- Dick Stockton was right in his assertion about the Pistons being on the best defensive teams in recent memory. The entire series between the Bulls and Pistons was a defensive struggle, very much like an ugly 90s-00s game. Very physical, lots of contested shots, and lots of half court offense.

- This game was a good example of why alot of fans of that time and even now was turned off by the Pistons style of play, especially compared to the Lakers and Celtics. Which is one of the few reasons the Pistons started to draw even and pass those teams. Slowed down tempo, physical play, concentration on rebounds, a number of defensive sets, and having deep roster with capable defenders littered over it. Was the antithesis of the fluid offensive styles of Boston and Lakers.

- The Bulls actually put up a good fight against the Pistons, but the depth wasn't there and team wise the Pistons were hungrier. Pippen was taken out of the game early with a Laimbeer (hard to say if it was inadvertent) elbow on a rebound (early in the 1st Quarter). Chicago really did not have many offensive options outside of MJ, while Sellars and Paxson could only do so much. Remember, the Pistons had James Edwards, John Salley, Dennis Rodman, and Mark Aguirre coming off the bench. That's like a team of starters almost.

- Paxson was a flawlessly shooter.

- Rodman was Rodman, but he hadn't really developed as a great rebounder yet.



- Zeke was unstoppable in the 4th quarter, no one on the Bulls could contan him. He finished with 30 points, 8 or 10 in the 4th quarter.


- Please do not compare any other modern athlete to MJ ever again, there was no basketball player on the planet, like him before or afterwards. Just like with Magic, Bird, or Wilt. Once in a life time players. His outside shooting was getting there, but he was practically unstoppable at times going to the basket.

- But, he wasn't clutch in this game, 5 for 12 from free throw line and he was sort running on fumes as the fourth quarter drew on. But he hit few tough shots. The Pistons were doing their damnedest trying to take him out of the game, double teams and really keeping him out on the perimeter. It worked . . . somewhat.

 

Damn "chip on the shoulder".

 

Another thread already mentioned Rockets and Sonics of the 1987 Western Conference Semifinals: Game 6.

Things I noticed (I'm going to focus mostly on the Sonics):

- Tom Chambers could fly for any guy. I thought this was the period of time when you started to see high flying, athletic players in the league at an all time high. He was a great scorer as well, though he was often pegged with being a ball-hog, but personally no different than most small forwards or shooting guards I see. Mostly scoring, with average or worse defense. Even though, he was tall (6,10), his game was more suited for small forward. The Supersonics and later the Suns might have been better with someone who could play more defense and rebound a bit more power forward, while letting Chambers slide down to small forward. Defense would be a concern, as suspected earlier.

- Seattle ... ??? Hard to describe this team, very high scoring team with a very talented roster, but they were lacking defense and did not seem to win alot of games because of it (not horrible, but not good). In fact, they were the worst team record wise ever to make an NBA conference finals. Maybe, it was just Bernie Bickerstaff, but they were perennial playoff team. 39 wins. I know the Lakers were happy to play them.


The next time someone talks about the league being water-down talent wise with regards to the teams, I'm going to show the records of the teams in the West, during the 80s. The Lakers pretty much had a cake walk, not because they were that talented, exactly, but because all of the other teams were so weak or never quite put it together. The toughest team that the Lake show beat in 87, during Western Conference playoffs, was the 42 win Golden State Warriors (Sleepy Floyd was on that team as well, )

- Lloyd Lewis and John Lucas were missing ingredients for the Rockets, as noted in other threads. I'm going to do a poll one day, and ask if the Rockets would've went further in the playoffs and even beat the Lakers once again with those players.

- Olajuwon's lift off the ground, during his jump shots is unreal. I've never seen another center get that far into the air as he does. He did make a few mistakes, on offense and defense actually at times. But, WOW, if there was ever player close to perfect it was Olajuwon. This stuff about Bill Russell being the best center ever. I laugh, seriously. Russell has nothing on Olajuwon, except that he played on a talented team for his entire career and benefited against weaker pool competition. Russell has nothing on Olajuwon when it comes to talent and skills.

- I've have forgotten how good Xavier McDaniel was, he was definitely all-star material.

- The announcers were already crowning the Lakers in subtle way.

 

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The one thing you could like about Arsenio Hall was his guest, OMG. Tom Chamber never appeared on Letterman or Carson.

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