I agree with u 100%. Rafer might suck (terribly bad sometimes), but he is still a better "starter" than Vspan. I am not asking to replace Rafer with Vspan, it wont happen and it will hurt the team, I just want Span to get some minutes when Rafer is on the bench. he isn't ready, I agree, he needs to adjust, absolutely. but we dont have a back up for Alston (which isn't exactly a quality starter). so with our situation, I think Vspan should get some minutes just to give Rafer a breather. I dont want to see Head running the point uncomfortably and I dont want to see Rafer playing 38+ minutes. from personal experience, the PG position is the hardest position physically, u really get tired as a PG more than anyone else because u are defending the fastest guy on the other team and you are handling the ball every position. that's why Rafer needs some rest, and the lack of rest might be a partial cause of his poor performances. so why not play Span 5-8 minutes a game, not to see him develop, but because we have no alternative (except for JL3, who is a ballhoggin 2 trapped in his 5'10 body). and when Rafer is having an exceptionally bad game (like the 0-20 thing in the span of 2 games), I think we should give Vspan a chance because once again, we have no alternative. if we had Sura starting and Alston coming off the bench, I wouldn't even say Span's name, but in our current situation, that's all we have! I've heard a lot of people saying that Vspan should start ahead of Rafer. I think this is nonsense because Rafer is still an NBA player who had played the game for 5 years. he might suck a little bit, but he still does some good stuff (passing, not so many TOs). Vspan wouldn't exactly help us as a starter. I am not one of those people asking to play Vspan for him to "develop" and become the next Tony Parker, I just want him to get some PT simply because, he is all we have left! when Rafer goes to the bench, then what? JL3 sucks really bad, Head doesn't have any PG skills, and Tmac has enough work to do and terribly needs extra "fuel" in the tank.
actually Rafer's shooting in January 2007 6-16 vs.SEA 5-17 vs. UTA 4-17 vs. MIN 2-14 vs. CHI 8-19 vs. LAL 5-15 vs. DEN 7-17 vs. SAC 4-10 vs. DAL 12-25 vs. PHX 5-18 vs. DEN 7-15 vs. SAS 4-12 vs. POR I would say that is a little more than a two game cold streak Some of you are saying JLIII has outperformed vspan...my question is how? What has he done that is so good. He is not a good shooter either and he rarely passes. Why cant vspan play 10 minutes a game or get some of JLIII's minutes, what is the big deal with that? Dirk was, but vspan was drafted higher in his draft than ginobili was. Vspan played very good in europe as well. He was an all-star, he made an all euro team, he won gold and silver medals at fiba championships and european championship games. No one says start him and play him significant minutes. Why not put him in for a few minutes per game? It is not a law that rookies cannot play like JVG thinks. They can often contribute when given a chance.
JL3 isn't good. But he finishes those little floaters better than vspan finishes his layups. He a slightly better shooter and he doesn't turn the ball over. You may consider some of his wild misses to be turnovers, but at least he gets a shot off as opposed to vspan, who likes to throw the ball away a lot. Vspan is shooting 30% on the floor and gets almost a turnover a game in 10 minutes of play. JL3 is shooting 41% from the floor and only has .35 turnovers a game with a 2:1 A/TO ratio. He's a better FT shooter and a better 3pt shooter. And JL3 scores more anyway. My question for you is...how has vspan earned any minutes over JL3?
i usually speaks for vspan... but after yesterday's game, 2 fouls in 2 mins for a guard, that is really poor bball iq
Myself, I don't even care about the hype of All-Star potential..gimme some Carlos Arroyo NOW to back up Rafer, I'll take that. If his ceiling was the next Bryce Drew then yeah screw him. Arroyo gets 20 minutes a game now and if Spanoulis is near comparable to even that right now, really nothing to be that ashamed about. And this team would have an option at backup point. Just calculated the percentage, thats 35.4% shooting That's DOWN from his 36.6% for the season. His last 5 games a blistering 40% from the field. You'd think he'd accidentally get even ONE game over 50% but not even that. I can see how Spanoulis says yeah I can do that with regular time.... BUT, I don't see him being that much more near to getting playing time even if he does improve. Kirk Snyder rounds back into form, Bonzi keeps playing and Yao gets back, its back to DNP and inactive list for Spanoulis with Padgett and Novak. Regardless he HAS to beat out Lucas first, before he can be an "All-Star".
Who says a 23 year old Spanoulis is as good as a 27 year old Arroyo? But for comparison's sake, given their similar international performance, here's the amounts of playing time Arroyo's received early in his career: Year 1: 17 games for a 42-40 Toronto team, 5.6 mpg; CUT, then 20 games for a 27-55 Denver team, 13.8 mpg; Total of 37 games, 10 mpg. 371 minutes total. Year 2: 44 games for a 47-35 Utah team, 6.5 mpg, 287 minutes total. Year 3: 71 games for a 42-40 Utah team, 28.3 mpg, 2008 minutes total. Arroyo played pretty scarce minutes his rookie year for pretty bad teams, and then even fewer minutes for a good team as a sophomore. In his limited play, Arroyo's production was significantly better than Spanoulis' (decent FG%, pretty good AST/TO)...so why should Spanoulis get more PT again? I see no reason why Spanoulis can't become a good rotation player, but that doesn't mean he is one now. Further, Arroyo's very limited minutes rookie/sophomore minutes seemed to have no ill effects on him putting together a very solid breakout 3rd year (12.6-5) for Utah. Conveniently enough, Spanoulis is signed for 3 years...so if he's on the same trajectory, and does break out by then, we'll have Bird Rights.
I saw so many comments here and heard so many from fans that "Nachbar totally sucks otherwise he would play more." Myself and many others saw talent (quite a bit in fact) and kept insisting if he just got playing time on a consistent basis with a decent team........... All of a sudden due to inuries in NJ he is getting that and wow imagine this all of a sudden he is showing he is certainly a capable NBA player. But JVG doesn't like Euro players "other than Dirk" according to Nachbar's comments. People said he was just a dumb talentless scrub that was making excuses and placing the blame on JVG. Funny, but Rudy T. thought highly of Nachbar then benched him after he got hurt. It seemed that was a major mistake. Seems the same thing is repeating now. I am sorry but it really is sad that so many fans fail to see this. Nachbar can play, the Rockets totally wasted him, destoryed his confidence, then threw him in for nothing to get a washed up 6-1 SG. Spanoulis not only can play and has talent like Nachbar, he is considerably MORE talented in fact much more. But since everyone here brags about Battier's bball IQ maybe more people should listen to him. Lots of people mention Yao comparing Span to Nash but everyone seems to forget that Battier has said that Spanoulis is in his opinion already a great player. I find it hard to undestand why so many people are really convinced that Rafer and JL3 are really better than Span and are really outplaying him. Spanoulis has all the tools, but apparently JVG is like much of the board. The basic thing wrong with this logic of "what have you done for me?" is that the guy has not been given a chance to actually do anything. If this same thing had been applied to T-Mac and Yao BOTH would have been benched about 1 week into their Rocket careers. It's sad but on issues like this I feel JVG really is this simple minded. Spanoulis had played on another team in the NBA he would be starting right now, but because he's "just a Euro" "not named Dirk" he can ride the pine and shut his mouth. I'm sorry but anyone scouting this guy and Rafer and JL3 and not seeing Spanoulis is clearly the most talented of the 3 is not going to be hired as a scout any time soon.
Buck Johnson, Danny Ferry, Jason Williams, That kid that was drafted by detroit, can't think of his name at 2am, to name a few. He is by NO MEANS even in the stratosphere, of over hyped like some of these guys. He's just hyped. Who did we trade 3 first round picks for again? Now that is overhyped. Mike
Winning an MVP and a championship doesn't count as domination? Most people considered Spanoulis the most dominant player ever in Europe for any player's first two seasons. No other player really was ever that good in just their first 2 years. Certainly not Dirk or Ginobilli, so I'm not sure what you mean.
So many people are saying Vspan is being made into a spot-up shooter when he isn't, when he shoudln't etc. But let's stop and look back for a minute. What was the reason JVG started playing him off the ball? Because he can't stop turning the ball over when he's handling it. And in an offense where you have a superstar guard up top/at the wings and a dominant big man occupying the low block, you better know how to be a spot-up shooter or crash the o-boards hard and fast if you wanna get playing time.
If V-Span was African American...he still wouldn't be Stevie Franchise because Steve had freakish skills albeit out of control sometimes... V-span has no athleticism so he has to be scrappy because he has no outside shot either. He needs to quit crying and learn the NBA game...this ain't Greece baby grow up and strap up and actually beat somebody out of some minutes. He's a damn rookie and expects to be giving minutes because management "told him he would play 20 minutes per night". He sounds like a damn college recruit complaining to his mama after the coach signed some high school phenom the next year and took all of his minutes....nut up dude and bring your A++ game throughout the season!
What are you talking about man? JVG gave Nachbar a chance. He actually played him more that Rudy T did. Nachbar barley played his rookie season. Only 14 games with an average of 5.5mpg. JVG played him tons of minutes in the preseason his 2nd and 3rd year here and gave him some minutes in the start of the season. He didn't do a damn thing either time. Yeah, we traded him for David Wesley. Better trade at the time because Boki couldn't contribute and David could at least hit open shots and play some good defense. Boki couldn't hit open shots or play any good defense. Only good thing he did here was the incident with Karl Malone. For that, he will never get forgotten. So I'm not sure where the hell you got all this. Boki had his chances here, even had playing time in the playoffs. He didn't do good so they shipped him off. Anyways, it's not like hes some future all-star or anything. Nothing more than your average bench role player. He doesn't give us nothing we need. He shoots under 40%, we don't need any more players shooting that bad.
This is exactly what I am talking about. Unfortunately this mentality seems prevalent here, amongst most fans, and even with JVG. It does seem upper management thinks in broader terms, but they seem to wilt to JVG and pressure from fans.
VSpan is going thru what every high schooler/early endtry college kid who ends up a second rounder/undrafted goes thru. My people told me I would be a high first round pick! At least hs is not sobbing in the green room.
Nike, that is just silly ! Do you think you or I are a better judge of talent than 2 players who consistently put up all star numbers in the NBA? No way, jose ! I will take their thoughts more than anyone on this board.......particularly because they agree with me !! Tmac however, certainly is prone to overexageration......but there is no denying the shooting ability of Novak, or the athleticism of Swift. Swift just did not have the heart or competitive fire....Novak....still too early to tell...but if Tmac says he is the best shooter he has ever seen...than I am inclined to agree with him. As for the V-mac arguments....I am tired of them.......let's just watch to see how it develops. DD
So you also think that Rafer could make the All-Star team this year and has a great touch on his teardrop shot? Rockets Dynasty - this is Nachbar's 5th season. That he has taken this long to even become decent is not a good selling point. Not to mention that, even this year with a coach that is not JVG (he has played for 4 coaches total), it took some serious injuries for him to get out there. As for the comparison, Nachbar is a much better shooter than Span so that hurts Billy even more as far as playing time this year. If he was having trouble adjusting to the defensive speed and athleticism but could shoot lights out, Span would probably be playing more.
I don't understand why people don't come to the conclusion about Vspan. Obviously it was the one game against the U.S. but get over it guys. He really hasn't shown many flashes in the NBA yet. I have never seen a worse decision maker in the NBA yet. If he got 20+ minutes a game he would have at least 3-4 TO's a game. Also, everyone can say what they want about Rafer. His passes to Tmac coming off of screens are about as perfect as possible. He hits Tmac and he shoots it all in one motion. Whoever thinks that is easy has never been a PG before and I can't even imagine doing it in the NBA especially when the other team knows its coming(See Spurs and Blazers game). It is obvious no one will change their minds at this point of Vspan or Rafer but after being excited about Vspan and then seeing him play(albeit in limited minutes) he has underwhelmed me to say the least and I have changed my mind about him. As for Rafer, the guy is the starting PG for a 27-16 team with several injury problems. I would rather take my chances with Luther at backup PG and Rafer getting as many minutes as he is now because we are doing fine. If we start losing to teams we should beat and Rafer shoots so bad that BBSers throw their TV's out the window, then maybe we should scale back his minutes.
I have not seen a single aspect of Vspan's game for me to be so geeked up over him. I seen the World Championship and was less than impressed, mainly cause I've seen other no names have big games against the US. I wouldn't mess with this rotation right now. We're 27-16 with a consistently banged up team. Luther Head may not have the handles or vision, but his shooting is more than enough for him to be Rafer's backup. And JL3 is providing us with an extra scoring punch whenever T-Mac is out. Everybody loved JL3 until he went 3/13 against the Suns. If Vspan had gone out and put together a streak of games where he had a good performance then we would've been seeing him rather than JL3.
