Right. And the rule says the ref can call a foul on the defender based on any contact that is made inside OR outside the zone. If Yao was outside the zone and set, then he can draw an offensive foul. The ref is saying that he called the foul because he was not outside the zone, but rather, inside. His judgement says the contact on that play (which Im not necessarily agreeing with) warranted a foul of some type, and since Yao was inside the restricted zone, he called it on Yao and not O'Nea. Therefore, thats why the ref said he called it because Yao was "inside the restricted zone". The rule clearly says the ref CAN make that call in that situation. IOW .....its has nothing do with the ref understanding the rule, because IMO, he does ....it has more to do with his judgement (which, I won't argue in this case) Right. Its purely based on contact at the ref's discretion. The ref understands the rule and 100% has the right to make that call at his discretion. I think you are more upset at the ref's judgement of the foul based on the amount of contact rather than his understanding of the rule. Just wanted to make that clarification.
I never understand why the frigging restriction area is such a holly place, no matter the offensive guy (other than Yao Ming of course) elbowing or kicking the defensive guys, as long as the defender has one inch of his foot inside, he would be called an blocking foul. NBA is just becoming more a joke, if the refs have super powers to direct the whole game. No matter where, if the power is not controlled, there is serious trouble. I hate those refs, I know hate is a strong word, but I do hate them! On a side note, when I saw NBA.com courtside update, on the end, when it no longer mattered, Yao was rebounding and dunking like crazy, I almost spit tea into my keyboard. He knows how to pad stats now, well, that's some improvement at least
But that is the problem. The ref saw contact and blew the whistle... THEN he decided he had to pick someone to assign it to. He doesn't seem to understand the concept of a play with contact but without a foul. It isn't a matter of "I must assign a foul, so who will it be given to?" Contact initiated by the offensive player on a defender with legal position: 1) Outside the restricted zone = Charge 2) Inside the restricted zone = Nothing No contact initiated by the defensive player: 1) Outside the restricted zone = Nothing 2) Inside the restricted zone = Nothing
If there's so much open to the "ref's discretion", then why the hell do we have "rules" in the first place. The "rules" should simply be "whatever ref says, goes". That worked pretty well for Hitler and Saddam until we screwed them over.
I'm really hacked because Yao is good at moving his feet and getting position for post defense, but he is constantly penalized for it. There seems to be a testosterone thing going on that says a big guy is a wuss for trying to draw a charge, but another problem with that theory is that Yao isn't trying to draw a charge. That is just like a block for Yao because he is huge and slow. It is much easier for Yao to form a giant barrier between the basket and the offensive player than it is for him to swoop in and swat a shot. It is a real disadvantage for Yao when he isn't allowed to play defense in this way because he will never be a quick shot blocker. He is much better as a "road block".
The way the NBA refs officiating Yao wont change until yao has the gut to throw the ball right into the face of a referee!!! I fully agreed with what one of the poster's uncle said, there is no way nba will let a chinese to dominate the league, especially one that are from China, not on the American soil!!!
EXACTLY! He doesn't need to or even want to draw a charge, he just wants to defend, what the heck is wrong with that? I just don't get it. Those refs are paranoid. It's so sad to see the frustration on that big guy's face. Nowadays, serial killers just get more respect and better treatment than solid citizens do.
I don't see a problem with him making the call based on his judgement (even, if in our opinion his judgement isn't right). If there is contact, then the ref has the right to make a call, and since Yao was inside the restricted zone, then the rule CLEARLY says, he CAN'T call it on O'Neal. Nothing or a call against the defender if the ref feels the contact made warrants a whistle. Well if no contact is made by the defender, I would agree that a call shouldn't be made either way. lol
does it really make sense to you? In your interpretation, if Yao is inside the zone, and even if O'Neal is trying to chop Yao's head off, the ref can't call it on O'Neal? No call the best? If he blows the whistle, it has to be on Yao? Please tell me you are kidding, right? Does it really make sense to you?
There was no judgment to be made on whether Yao had position, so there was no judgment to be made on whether or not a foul could be called on Yao. The ref only has judgment when the defensive player initiates the contact or doesn't have position.
But the rule for the restricted zone is there. No one can do anything about that, including Yao or JVG. I think the only thing Yao can do is to make sure that whatever contact he makes while in the restricted zone is insignificant in the ref's eyes (and I agree that alot of the calls are ticky tack in that situation ..but alot of the calls are fair as Yao has a bad habit of jumping INTO guys when he slides over to protect the basket). The refs are calling him for judgement contact/bumping fouls while in the restricted zone, not for just contact in the restricted zone
The rules are clear that no offensive foul can be called inside the restricted zone, whether that makes sense or not. I think (someone correct me on this if I am wrong) the biggest reason is to prevent injuries by players standing under the basket on fast breaks and such. The NBA doesn't want players scampering underneath the basket with a slim hope of drawing a charge when the offensive players are running full speed for a layup. Undercutting at the basket can cause serious injuries if a player lands on his back in that vulnerable situation. The restricted zone rule eliminates any incentive the defender has for creating that situation. BTW, there isn't a rule saying he has to blow the whistle...
Thats not correct. The rule says the ref can make a judgement foul call on the defender, based on contact, if he is in the restricted zone, regardless of who initiates it. The rule also says they CAN NOT call it on the offensive player if the defender is inside the zone. IOW ...a loose interpretation of the rule, IMO, is that the offensive player has the right NOT to be impeeded by contact by a defender who is inside the restricted zone. Whether or not he initiates the contact is irrelevant. In that situation, the offensive player is almost ALWAYS going to be the one initiating the contact since he is moving TOWARDS the basket and the defender will be trying to stand still and draw a charge.
Thanks for the explanation, and I know this as well. But it really angers me to see scumbags like Malone kicking people on purpose and take advantage of the rule. It's really not healthy for the sports. Rules should never encourage people to "draw fouls". That's why NHL and soccer started to deal with floppings. NBA really have to do something about "drawing fouls" and "initiate contacts" craps.
When Yao got called for that offensive foul I was wishing JVG would pull his team off the floor and forfeit. I wonder how much that would cost? What Mr. Stern really needs to realize is the officiating bias against Yao is alienating an incredible market. In other words, Mr. Stern should not defecate where he wants to eat.
Rough guess here, but I would think JVG would be in for a LONG suspension (if not, outright ban from the league) and the Rockets organization would be fined HEAVILY. Oh, and most importantly: I think JVG would lose the respect of every single one of his players, including Yao.
The iron fist of David Stern will make this a certainty. However, I do not think Van Gundy will lose the respect of his players at all. In fact, I think it will be the total opposite. He will gain a lot of respect and support from his players and fans for standing up for them and what he believes in.
On the plus side, outside of the arena, Yao will never be pulled over by a cop because he "looks suspicious" or "matches the profile of a perp" or "is a black male in an expensive car". If yao gets treated fairly, then so will everyone else! C'mon people, let's think of the slippery slope!
On your initial post you cited: That is the last line in the block-charge rules. I don't think it gives the official carte-blanche to call a foul on any play under any circumstances where contact is made. He is still bound by all the other rules that address the situation more specifically. But the first line of the block-charge rules states: I would consider all rules that are more specific to a situation to supercede the more general rules. He would be allowed to say that the offesive contact was not a foul because it was neglible, but he wouldn't be able to attribute a foul to the defender who established legal position as is allowed. Yao had position on O'neal according to the rules of contact situations:
Before you take that stance, name all the times in the history of sports where a coach has refused to let his team compete and pulled them out of the game to protest a ref's call. I can't think of any. And as a player, i would feel humiliated if my coach was the 1st one to say "we quit and we can't win this game because of the refs". I can't think that any player wants to be known as a quitter, including our guys.
