I don't know, Icehouse. To me, your whole thing with your values and ethics, is flawed. I know what it's like to compete, play in tournaments and such. Sure it sucks to lose, but you just don't give up like that. If you don't have that fire in you... well, too bad. We're just different. What if... in the Mighty Ducks, that cool guy with the long hair who eventually helped the protagonist team in the end, instead joined the opposing team because it would be easier to win? Lame, right? But whatever... you do your ****, I'll do mine.
You know, when Dirk signed that new contract, I had the same thought as well - that he might have given up his best shot at a ring by staying with Dallas. So I was somewhat surprised that the Mavericks made it this far especially with the loss of Caron Butler. And you are 100% correct in that it's been the Dallas bench that has failed to step up in both losses. But I think you have hit the nail on the head when you talk about penetration because that has been the old weakness of every Mavericks team under Cuban. Their interior defense is/was always suspect and teams that relentlessly attack them on the inside have always prevailed against them. It just so happens that in Wade and LeBron, the Heat have two superior players who can attack the basket while Dallas has...Dirk (sometimes) and nobody else save for the occasional Barea drive inside. That plus the fact that Kidd is sacrificing everything to play Wade has been the difference between the two teams so far. You have to get more offensive production out of your starting PG than what Kidd has given them so far.
My value on ethics is fine. Giving up to me is trying to force a trade. Signing with another team as a free agent is not giving up to me. Deciding to give it a shot with the same amount of talent as all the other guys that are winning, instead of continuing to try with LESS TALENT than 90% of the teams that win is not giving up to me. That's dumb to me. So the only way for LeBron to maintain good values and ethics is to win with less than most other stars? That's essentially what you are asking him to do by staying in Clevelald. It depends on how much talent he had on his team. Is there enough talent to win with on his team? Is he at a disadvantage compared to the great majority of teams that are winning titles? Is he leaving to join a worse team, which is what LeBron did (Miami hadn't been out of the first round in how long?)? You guys make it seem like LeBron is cheating by putting himself in the same situation that Magic, Bird, Jordan and Kobe were in every single year they won a title. You would have a point if he left to go to a team that was already a contender, or forced the team to trade him to a team like that. Leaving as a free agent to create a better situation is not the same thing.
Oh, and he didn't join "them". He joined a team that hadn't been out of the first round in what....4 seasons?
In the Mighty Ducks here... the movie. You'd rather let the good guys lose, wouldn't you? Leaving to join a worse team? Wow, now I know you're delusional. Teaming up with Wade and Bosh with a whole bunch of vets and simply saying "oh they didn't make it to the playoffs for a while, they're worse than Cleveland" is worse. Yeah. Right. I just don't know what world you live in if you think LeBron did not sell himself out. It's crazy. Even most people I know who don't care about LeBron think he sold out.
Your gang analogy makes no sense. I don't think integrity has anything to do with it. He fulfilled his contract with Cleveland. He was a free agent. Now Cleveland had its chances to put a championship level team around him. They failed to do so and let him reach free agent status. Free agent means you can go anywhere and he did. You can feel bad for the Cleveland fans but LeBron did nothing wrong here. Now, if you want to argue the way he left, then you and I can agree 100%. But winning isn't everything, it's the only thing and LeBron knows that in the end only those with a ring are considered to be true winners. Just look at how Dirk Nowitski will be remembered as a loser if the Mavs fall short again while D Wade will be remembered as one of the greats because he'll have won two rings to Dirk's zero.
Howard's just way too much. i feel aldridge for bosh will do. they're basically the same production wise but aldridge's a more talented low post threat. even they stay put, 3 out of 5 is totally possible.
The thing about LeBron joining a weaker team still baffles me. Honestly I don't know how you can say that the team that didn't hadn't made it past the 1st round is at all comparable with one that is a completely different team, with two stars.
How about this analogy: Become a stripper and get easy money Or Study hard and get a real career then earn money the right way Which one is LeBron? I'll make it easy for you: He's the stripper.
He formed a better team. The team was not that good until he and Bosh got there. You make it seem like he left to join a top team that was already winning. No, I don't have an issue with a free agent forming a better team, especially when it's not even in the top 5 of most talented teams that I have seen play. I live in a world where I don't bash guys for choosing where to play when they are free agents. How silly of me. I also live in a world where I don't mind LeBron winning with Wade and Bosh when I have seen other numerous stars win with better supporting talent. Silly me again.
Marion is a better defender than Kidd, period. Wade has the matchup advantage. There is no need to even try and dispute that. And I'm not even arguing that LeBron is being as assertive as he can be this series. I don't see how that applies to basketball, where no one earns anything on their own. LeBron is not winning with anymore talent than 90% of other stars won with. You guys need to keep repeating that to yourself until it sinks in. This team is not the most stacked team ever. Plenty of star players have won with better teams. The majority of them actually. I doubt Barkley would hear anything if he went to play with Jordan after Jordan had 4 first round exits in a row. Especially not if Barkley outproduced Jordan in almost every category during the regular season, finished higher in MVP voting, made the All-NBA team (while Jordan didn't) and outproduced Jordan in almost every category in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs. This almost happened in 1983 with Moses Malone and I don't recall anyone saying he was a wuss for what he did.
Trust me, I see what you're saying but it's so completely narrow-minded. At this point, you still don't get what I'm saying, and gmoney made a pretty good explanation of it as well. That's too bad. You're just one of those people that want to win, at any cost, even if it means selling out. Good for you.
No, I'm just not a guy that will bash another man for putting himself in the same situation as most winners. You don't have to win with less to earn my respect. If it's ok for Magic and Bird to win with multiple HOF players then I won't bash LeBron for doing the same, even if he chose to. Why the hell wouldn't you choose to? Why is it ok for Bird to play his prime with 3 other HOF players but all hell for LeBron to choose to play with 1?? Riddle me that? Because he didn't "choose" to? That's the silly part to me. We are ok with all of these great teams that we have watched over the past 30 years but not ok when it when a guy chooses to be on one, even though history shows you need to be on one to win. And you say I'm narrow minded.
Let me see, does your logic also apply to what team you root for? Our Rockets aren't in a good state and aren't contending anytime soon. So as a fan, isn't it in your best interest to root for a winning team so that it makes you feel better as a fan? Oh wait...
No, I think you are "one of those people" who need to feel like they're correct regardless of irrational the criticism of LeBron is. Had LeBron joined the Lakers, as talented and proven as they currently are, you might have a basis for your argument. But right now, in reality, LeBron is the main reason for the Heat playing in the finals. That's a fact (though it's obviously Wade's FMVP to lose). Why some prefer LeBron have a heart-attack in CLE with no true second option and lead the team in every possible statistical category only to fall short is beyond me. Let me guess: that's what a true leader does, and NBA history proves it?
You keep repeating yourself about how those other winners had awesome teams. I already got that a long time ago. You repeat yourself about how LeBron put himself in the same position as those other guys. I got that a long time ago as well. What you need to understand is all I wanted to see was what everyone wanted to see. That is, for a guy like LeBron to be on a team (didn't have to be the Cavaliers) and be the undisputed leader and MVP meaning no questions asked, the guy who with all his potential to be the GOAT, win it with his name and his name alone in huge letters. Close your eyes, when you think the Bulls, you can see the name MICHAEL JORDAN in huge letters, followed by Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman in medium size letters. Now imagine the Heat go on a dynasty as well with the same core. What we will likely see when we close our eyes will be LEBRON JAMES and DWYANE WADE in the same size font. (With Chris Bosh's name small as hell.) That is the reason LeBron is being respected less. Because of expectations of TRUE GLORY that he plunged down the drain.
LeBron gets to the finals, he can do that alone. He's proven that greatness. He needs Wade to seal the deal. Somehow he falls short in the Finals and he knows it, that's why he needed a guy like Wade. To me that is his flaw, exactly why he will never be the GOAT. And I didn't say he had to stay with the Cavs.
So what is your criteria to being the undisputed leader and MVP, no questions asked? Is it what you do in the NBA Finals? Was Duncan not the undisputed leader and MVP this season, when Parker won the Finals MVP? http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2007.html Was Magic not the undisputed leader and MVP this season, when Worthy won the Finals MVP? http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1988.html To some (yes I am in this some category), when a player leads the team in almost every category in the regular season and the first 3 rounds of the playoffs then he is the best player on that team, even if he doesn't do that in the Finals. I think 90+ games is a better guage then what, 4 so far? I don't think LeBron is the team leader. I don't even think he is the team captain. But I have no doubts he is the best player in basketball. If he needs to be the clear team leader then I don't think he will ever meet your criteria, and I don't think he cares.
