1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

NBA Draft Blowout

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Da Man, Jun 8, 2000.

  1. Da Man

    Da Man Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 1999
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    301
    Alright, I guess it is that time of year to start shouting out every single thing I can remember about every player I've seen. (Warning, this post will be extremely long)

    I am going to talk about probably 20-25 top prospects in no particular order. This comes from all of my mental notes that I have made over their high school and college years. You won't be hearing about Iakovos Tsakadilis or any other foreigners for that matter, since I haven't seen them play. So I have no insightful opinion on them and I refuse to pretend like I do.

    Kenyon Martin:

    I don't care if he's 6'7", 6'8", or 6'9". This guy dominates. I was skeptical about how vastly improved his game was until he just dominated game after game. His college highlight was definately the Depaul game this year when he scored 5 or 6 baskets downt he stretch over the 7 foot Steve Hunter and 6'11" Lance Williams, both of whom are legitimate pro prospects. He brought out the whole arsenal. Fadeaways, up and unders, slashing power moves, and a little jump hook. He had little trouble defending and basically dominating the 7 foot, 270 lbs Brendan Haywood in their meeting. The guy can play against big people. And he can play at a high level against them. Kenyon Martin might not have the most imposing physique. But he's like Gary Payton. He's got that wiry strong build in which you'll be surprised by his strength. The guy is a defensive machine. When people mention how good Swift, Martin, and Pryzbilla are as defenders. Make no mistake about it, Martin is on a whole other level than those guys. Remarkable timing on his block shots. He looks like he is shot from a canon swatting balls to half court. He just has very natural instincts for the skill.

    People talk about Martin like he's a finished product. The guy made one of the most remarkable one year improvements that I have ever seen in a player. I think he has a lot of potential that he still has yet to touch. And I guarantee you he will out work every player in this draft on the court and off the court. Confidence, Intensity, Work Ethic, and just damn Talent, You've got to love Kenyon Martin.

    At best: Xavier McDaniels with premier shot blocking abilities.

    At worst: Theo Ratliff, which is not bad.

    Marcus Fizer:

    Anytime you are dealing with a slightly undersized power player who does not really jump out of the gym, you are going to have a hard time gauging how good he is going to turn out. Byron Houston, Clarence Weatherspoon, and Corliss Williamson all failed to authentically transfer their college dominance to the pros. I believe Marcus Fizer has the best chance out of them all to stop to trend of disappointing undersize PF's. He may not jump like Kenyon Martin, but he moves amazingly well for his 260 to 270 plus pounds. I haven't seen a bull his size move in the open court like that in quite some time. He doesn't just run the court, he has the ability to push the break on occasion. The guy can handle the rock. And he can put the ball in the bucket. I haven't seen anyone really have too much success against this guy in an iso situation. He must be one confused man on the offensive end trying to decide whether he wants to dazzle his man with his footwork down low, blow by his man on the perimeter, or drop his baby soft 15 foot jumper(I'm still not sold on his long distance shooting). He has great hands. Probably could improve a bit on his passing out of double teams. I saw the man bounce and bully his way through 4 defenders once for an impressive power bucket. The defenders weren't just down there slapping at the ball, it was a full fledge mugging. But he's strong. His defense is not his best trait. He is far from a liability. Don't expect him to block any shots. But what he does very well is push his defender out of his comfort zone down low. He is a lot like Brian Grant and Karl Malone in that respect. They don't play for the block. They want to push you out with their strength and either strip the ball or create a difficult look. Marcus Fizer is one of the bigger gambles in the lottery, but the rewards could be very exciting.

    At best: Karl Malone

    At Worst: Any undersized disappointing PF you can think of.

    Chris Mihm:

    I would probably pass on Mihm if I had the 15th pick. I'm just not sold on him. I don't care where GM's rate him. I don't care where draft niks rate him. I rate him as a good center prospects with a lot of question marks. Basically this little excerpt from NBATALK.com sums up all of my concerns that I've had about Mihm since his college career began:

    "Well, the Bulls brought Mihm and Kentucky center Jamal Magliore in for a private workout ealier this week. A source who was at the workouts told NBAtalk that Mihm was destroyed by Magliore. Let us make this perfectly clear. He got taken to the rack and dunked on. His shots were rejected. When all was said and done, Mihm was bent over, clutching the bottom of his shorts and Jamal Magliore was smirking at him after doing the damage. If nothing else it reinforced the general consensus that Mihm is soft."

    Mihm has good hands. He has a soft touch around the basket and on the perimeter. And he's a good position defender. But he has big time trouble establishing low post position on offense. Gets pushed out of his comfort zone by primarily much smaller players. There are just not that many decently skilled big men in the college game. And still I have yet to see Mihm dominate a game in college to warrant a lottery selection. I don't want to hear this he was double and triple teamed bull ****, because every good college center gets the same treatment. Yet they still are able to dominate. I'm not to crazy about his game. I'm not to crazy about his potential. And I'm sure the hell ain't crazy about his mental makeup. He's not a very confident player. Stuff him once or twice and he'll most likely disappear for the rest of the game. His intensity wanes like a man in a comotose. I would not be surprised if that report about his work out with Jamal Magloire was 100% true. Where's the fire? Hell Wally's world wasn't too afraid of taking Jamal to the rack in the 1999 NCAA tournament. Mihm is going to be facing a lot of centers with exponentially more skills than Magloire. The NBA is too desperate to find a good center and often teams just hurt themselves. Todd Fuller, Vitaly Potapenko, Michael Olowakandi, Yinka Dare, Shawn Bradley, and etc, etc, etc.

    At best: Vlade Divac

    At worst: Travis Knight


    Mike Miller:

    I like Miller. He's a personal favorite of mine. He has a top notch feel for the game. Just plain knows how to play the game the right way. Very good passer. Makes tremendous feeds into the post. Handles the rock very well. Moves well with the ball and without the ball. He's a good shooter now. But I think he has a chance to be a premier shooter in the NBA. This guy has put on shooting exhibitions before. I think a lot of people will be surprised by his shooting abilities. He is a surprisingly good defender for a collegiate. He pretty much shut down Morris Peterson for two thirds of the game. Moves his feet well and gets his hands on a lot of balls. He's a good athlete. Can excel at the 2 and the 3. Might even gets some spot minutes at the point and the 4 spot. Has good intangibles. Led his team to the brink of a Elite 8 appearance his freshmen year and a Championship appearance his sophomore year.

    At best: Dale Ellis in his prime with better passing skills.

    At worst: Walt Williams

    Desmond Mason:

    I think he is one of the true sleepers in the draft. Fantastic athlete. Shoots it well from long range. Plays very good defense. Takes quality shots. Has trouble creating his shot. Could use you some improvement on his ball handling. Will be a 2 guard in the pros.

    At best: Malik Sealy

    At worst: Cory Benjamin

    Donnell Harvey:

    He is projected to be a combo forward in the pros. Huge wingspan and mammoth hands. Tremendous athlete. Won the McDonald's high school slam dunk contest with a mighty impressive between the legs dunk. Was the number 1 rated high school player in the nation. This guy is an absolute "warrior". That's just how everyone likes to describe this fella. If you ever get the chance to see him work his magic in the paint, it's amazing. He gets off 2 or 3 jumps on the boards before anyone reacts. Led the Gators in rebounding despite playing roughly 20 minutes a game. He's a good shot blocker. Offensive game is still rough, but it is a bit better than most observers would lead you to believe. If he got more looks at Florida, he would look a hell of lot more comfortable on offense than he did this year. Probably needs to tone down the intensity at times because he missed a few too many point blank layups this year. Plays physical and with a burning fire. He looks a lot like Kenyon Martin did in his freshmen year, except his game is a bit more refined than Kenyon's at that point. He probably is the only other person in this draft with the same kind of on the court and off the court work ethic and intensity that Kenyon possesses. I think someone is going to take a flyer on him in the mid 1st round.

    At best: Brian Grant with much more athleticism.

    At worst: Keon Clark

    Mateen Cleaves:

    I love watching Mateen play. There are some rumblings that Mateen might be considerably shorter than his 6'2" listing. But he is still the number one point guard in this draft. Doesn't look like the fastest guy around and he plays just down right ugly at times. But boy does he get the job done. The man can push a fast break better than any point guard in this draft. Dictates the tempo of the game much in the same vein as Mark Jackson, John Stockton, and Andre Miller. Very good penetrator. His outside shot has improved, yet it is still subpar by NBA standards. But he does have a problem with his overall consistency. He'll blow a few layups here and there. Decision making will get eratic every now and then. There was a 5 or 6 game stretch where he was racking up turnovers like they were assists. He's a very good, physical defender. Has trouble guarding some of the quicker guards though. Plays with a lot of fire, tough as nails, and possesses a tremendous heart. It says a lot when only Richard Hamilton and himself made the Rudy's Olympic team in 1998, while some noteworthy college stars like Trajan Langdon were cut during the tryouts.

    At best: Mark Jackson

    At worst: Jacque Vaughn

    (Well, there is only so much a person can write in one sitdown session. I will continue with further analysis on Monday)






    ------------------
     
  2. sir scarvajal

    sir scarvajal Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good analysis, I completely agree with your take on Fizer, though I don't agree on Mihm. What I see in Mihm is a guy with too much size and well-rounded skills not to be an average-to-above-average NBA center. One play immediately comes to mind, against UConn, on the fly he was able to catch, control and finish a fast break. He also showed himself to be far superior to that UConn center (Voskal) who had played Duke OK the year before in the finals. Those images right there (which shows at least average body control) too me are something Erik Dampier, Eric Montross or Oestertag simply wouldn't have shown. He also can shoot a little, I think Mihm will make it in the pros.

    Best case player: Jack Sikma. For those that don't know of him, how about another average in athleticism center who could also play, Robert Parrish. For those that can't remember Parrish, how about Ric Smits.

    Worst case: Erick Dampier or Big Country.

    Da Man I am interested what you have to say on monday, what you will say about Swift (especially relatibe to K-Mart), Moiso, Demarr, Miles, Pryzbilla, or any international player we might draft.


    [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited June 08, 2000).]
     
  3. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 1999
    Messages:
    3,112
    Likes Received:
    253
    Just when I was leaning towards Moiso over Miller at 9, your analysis of M. Miller switched me right back to Miller. He really sounds like a great fit for the Rockets (hopefully, we'd trade Walt). I've never heard Miller described as that great a shooter and his 3 pt. pct. isn't overwhelming, but I trust you since you seem to have seen Florida a lot and you've got such a good record in past drafts.

    One thing: M. Manual seems to think Miller lacks foot speed, which could conceivably hamper the Rockets' running game. Have you noticed that about him?

    ------------------


    [This message has been edited by oakdogg (edited June 09, 2000).]
     
  4. MManal

    MManal Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,516
    Likes Received:
    1
    M. Manual seems to think Miller lacks foot speed

    Let's clarify that a bit. I do not think that Mike Miller is the stud defender that some make him out to be. He has a good amount of question marks on his defensive game. He does fine within the context of the Florida pressing scheme but that isnt following him to the NBA. When he gets matched up against a player that is quick off the dribble ie. Desmond Mason, he gets broken down a good bit. Anyone watch how much Mason broke him down in the tourney? These are the types of wing players he is going to face in the NBA.

    I like Miller's game on the offensive side of the ball, his ball handling, passing, shooting, rebounding. I also like the fact that he hustles somewhat, but one thing he is not is a really good defensive player.

    Also, I think he would fit into the Rockets scheme of things as he is a tall, ball handling forward that can pass, drive, rebound and shoot. I like his game except for his question marks on the defensive side of the ball. I think on draft day this will be a moot point though as he will likely not make it past the Atlanta Hawks.

    ------------------
    Check out the Best Source for Draft Info

    Draftsource.net

    [This message has been edited by MManal (edited June 09, 2000).]
     
  5. rocketsfan34

    rocketsfan34 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    1
    Miller's man to man defense isn't exposed when they do their press, so therefore not many people notice that. That's where the misconception that he's a good defender comes in. Many people see him doing well in the press, and assume he's a good defender. But if you look carefully, whenever they are in a half court defense, and he has to guard a quick player, he gets burned big time. I do admire that he tries to play good defense and use his B-Ball IQ to his advantage(watch the guy's waist, challenge his shot), but honestly his lateral foot speed is just too slow. Miller just has an extremely hard time with any player with a quick first step.



    ------------------
    Check out the new and improved
    Draftsource.net
     
  6. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,232
    Likes Received:
    12,896
    I think that Miller could become an above average defender. Personally, I still don't like the kid too much just cause I see him as a white punk (I really liked HArvey and not Miller on Florida), but, think about him in a comparison to Scottie Pippen. Now, he certainly is no Scottie Pippen, but Scottie is kinda slow a foot also, yet he manages to use his bball IQ to make first team defense consistently. If Miller takes that route, he could become a solid team defender.

    ------------------
    When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!
     
  7. Moe

    Moe Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 1999
    Messages:
    1,249
    Likes Received:
    23
    JayZ, you keep calling Miller a white punk. Exactly, what does that mean?

    ------------------
     
  8. TeXaSalsa

    TeXaSalsa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2000
    Messages:
    668
    Likes Received:
    0
    If miller works hard enough he could probably reach Dan Marjele's level on D by the time he is a veteran. marjele is a white guy who plays great D. miller needs to work on lateral speed and moving his feet but i like the fact he plays fundamentally sound D.
    marjele isnt the most athletic guy in the league but plays GREAT D. if miller is willing to work hard and be relentlesss he will be just fine on defense.

    ------------------
    --TEX
     
  9. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 1999
    Messages:
    3,112
    Likes Received:
    253
    Thanks for the add'l info on Miller's D, MManual and rf34. Didn't mean to misrep. your description from draftsource.net.

    ------------------
     
  10. Da Man

    Da Man Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 1999
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    301
    More analysis, here we come!

    Morris Peterson:

    Simply put, the best perimeter scorer in this draft as of this moment. Excellent mid range shooter. Shoots it off the dribble, on the break, off screens, and just basically in every conceivable way. His long range shot is good, but a little inconsistent at times (Think Cuttino Mobley). He works off the ball better than every player in this draft. I think he is a better penetrator than a lot of people give him credit for. Some of his best collegiate games happened this year when Mateen Cleaves was out with the foot injury. Against Carolina, he showcased his complete offensive repetoire, which included the ability to break his man down off dribble. Very good slashing skills. Great open court player. And he knows how to finish, which is a trait that is very often overlooked. Sure, there are plenty of guys that can get to the rack, but can they finish as effectively and proficiently as let's say Rod Strickland(who in his prime was as automatic as it got). Morris Peterson finishes! He is a very good post player. Likes to over power his man and has a nice fadeaway. He is an average to below average passer. Needs to work on his ball handling skills. His defense is average in my book. But how many perimeter college players play good defense right away in the NBA? Not many. Best rebounding guard in this draft. I believe he led the Spartans in rebounding this year. The Spartans just happen to be one of the premier rebounding teams in the nation, and Mo Pete was a big reason for it. He gets in there and isn't afraid to get the tough rebound(a lot like Kobe Bryant). Peterson is a good, but not a spectacular athlete. Don't get me wrong, he has 2 of the best facials in the 1999-2000 NCAA season. He can throw it down and run the floor. But he is not going to ooze athleticism with all that he does, but he'll impress you with how refined his game is. As of right now, he can be a key contributor to a playoff team given the right circumstances. That can not be said about the majority of players in this draft.

    At best: A taller Cuttino Mobley.

    At worst: Ed O'Bannon

    Quentin Richardson:

    Only if he was 5 inches taller. Some of the best rebounding instincts you will ever witness. One of the leading rebounder in the nation his freshmen year. He is only 6'5" and roughly 210 lbs. And what is even more amazing is that fact that he is not even that good of an athlete. Not overly quick. Doesn't jump too high. Doesn't run remarkably fast. But not many people know how to work the interior for a rebound like Quentin. And no one plays harder than Quentin.

    He came into this year to showcase his ability to play on the perimeter. Most scouts had questions about whether he could consistenly hit the outside jumper. I think he dispelled those questions this year. But as he played 2 guard this year, the biggest question of all crept up, "Can he create his own shot?" And that question alone has pushed him out of the lottery. There is nothing worse for a prospective NBA 2 guard to be tagged with than the "I can't create my own shot" tag. Unless you are an unbelievable shooter, which Quentin is not, your stock will drop. Quentin could not get to the rack off the dribble this year. His points came on his 3 point shooting and scrappy interior play. He has a great feel for scoring around the basket. Unfortunately, I don't think he's going to help himself too much in his workouts. All of the great things that are apparent when you watch the Q play in a game, aren't quite as visible and can't be measured in any work out. Mid first to early second is where it looks like he'll wind up this year.

    At best: Mark Aguire

    At worst: Miles Simon


    ------------------
     

Share This Page