Not that I ever thought much of Antoine Walker, but his PW% is just marginally better than Big Country's? It doesn't change your point at all, but Joe Johnson played at Arkansas (Fayetteville), that's a huge difference from UALR. (He did go to Little Rock Central High, the public school that my mother went to for exactly one day. A couple of years before the famous desegregation.)
Oh PLEASE don't bring to attention the fact that we passed on Jefferson in that draft. Why?? CD Why??
I liked the Previous Carmelo Anthony vs Bruce Bowen comment. If I am putting this team together and it comes down to Bruce Bowen (pain inflicting, powerful defender and great three point shooter, tough as they come, total team player, knows how to win) or Melo, Hah, no contest. I take Bowen. Melo will have trouble with the international game, international rules, nternational refs. Melo had trouble in this years playoffs with the NBA game, refs, and his coach and team. Until he proves otherwise he is too much flash and flake, and not near enough warrior. Certain max contracts over the years looked foolish the day they were signed. Melo has that look about him.
TB, I did not mean to imply that you were were attacking Battier, nor was I really defending his selection as the sixth pick. All I intended to say is that I can't really see any reason that he should have been selected any lower, and that only a few players drafted below Battier are better than he is now. In any event, what I did mean to say is that your expectation of getting a better player than Battier just because you've got the sixth pick in the draft lacks a critical point of reference, namely who's on the draft board for the year in question. Now, if he was drafted number one and turned out to to be a 10-12 ppg scorer that only gets 5 rpg, then I would question his comments. You don't draft role players number one. But you don't question humble comments from a guy drafted sixth that has put up solid if not unspectacular numbers in the six years he's played in the league since being drafted. Plus, nobody ever said or predicted that Battier was the second coming of Christ. Gleaning intentions through the subtle use of words and phrases aside, there is no reason to expect Battier to have turned out to be more than he is now. -P1st, Snd
I absolutely DID NOT forget Gerald Wallace, who can only put up 16 (?) ppg on a bad team, doesn't make a good % of his jumpers, has a poor FT%, plays average - reaching for steals defense, and once said as a second-string forward coming out of college that he had all the tools he needs to make it in the NBA. I question how anybody could think that what Gerald Wallace has done with the Bobcats makes him much of a player. Look, Gerald Wallace is a good player. However, Battier would put up the same - or better - numbers playing for the Bobcats, and would be more efficient than Gerald Wallace in doing so. Really. -P1st, S2nd
I am not sure if hoops-world's articles are allowed here but this is a nice one that tells how good Battier could be.... Its was a membership page link which won't work here. Just go to their site and click on the article. There is a free trail user name and password. Replacing Battier By Jason Fleming for *************** Jul 21, 2006, 12:30 For a few seasons now whenever a team called to ask if the Memphis Grizzlies wanted to make a deal and they asked for forward Shane Battier, the answer was always the click of the phone being hung up. This summer Jerry West fell for the talented Rudy Gay and the Houston Rockets were finally able to talk Memphis out of the cerebral Battier...but what he brought to the Memphis Grizzlies is going to be hard to replace, very hard. What exactly did Battier bring? Shane Battier is perhaps one of the smartest players in the NBA. He understands game situations and can think quickly, he can read passing lanes, he's masterful at defensive positioning, he can read rebound caroms, he's extremely coachable, he understands his limits, he can hit open jump shots, he makes the extra pass, and his teammates respect him as a leader. Oh yeah, and his five-year, $32 million contract is very, very affordable given his talents. Seriously, who wouldn't want Shane Battier on their team? That's why Jerry Colangelo wanted him on Team USA, that's why the Grizzlies have been reluctant to trade him, and that's why everyone asked his status. Memphis finally decided they had to do something drastic and Battier got them what they wanted. So how can Memphis replace him? Asking Rudy Gay to step in and do all of that would be ridiculous - they know that. The problem is no matter what Battier cannot be replaced by just one player currently on their roster. Gay can bring some offense, so can Mike Miller; Stromile Swift (if he stays, he doesn't want to) can bring some defense; a healthy Damon Stoudamire can shoulder some of the passing load; Lawrence Roberts might be able to contribute more on the glass... Pretty weak argument, isn't it? The fact is the Grizzlies traded a player who cannot be replaced very easily. With their current roster it looks like it will take some of 4-5 different guys to replace all the things Battier did - and expecting that to happen overnight is ridiculous. Memphis knew they had to bring in some more athleticism to their team, so they swung for the fences with Rudy Gay. They think he has all the tools to become a superstar in the NBA. Sure, it can happen, but it won't happen right away and Gay probably will not bring the extremely high basketball IQ of a Battier. What it boils down to is the Grizz lost their brains, their coach on the floor, a team leader - and they didn't replace him with like talent. Possibly Brian Cardinal - who has some of the same attributes as Battier (stress on some) - could be given more of a chance to see what he can do. A better thing would for Memphis to look in free agency and see if they can find that player who not only brings a high hoop intelligence quota, but also seems to be getting overlooked. Anyone out there? Perhaps a Toni Kukoc? Trouble with that is his age - he doesn't have the legs anymore to bring it every night. Outside of Kukoc, there really isn't anyone...why? Well, because these types of players teams tend to hold on to. That creates a conundrum for the Memphis Grizzlies: How can they maintain their status as a Western Conference playoff team with a player that important and difficult to replace no longer on their roster? Good question...and one the Grizzlies are going to be pulling their hair out over for the rest of the summer. With the improvements in the West of the Utah Jazz and the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets, plus the dangerous Kevin Garnett-led Minnesota Timberwolves, plus a apparently healthy Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady in Houston, on paper Memphis' place in the playoffs is tenuous. On paper - on the court always brings us something different...we shall see.
Dude, I'm guessing this might have been a lame attempt at some pseudo-patriotic humor, and I submit that I'm probably more sensitive to this than some others might be, but that part of your post seemed dangerously close to a blatant racial slur. I get that Americans like to dump on France because of military history, but calling the dude a monkey was lame at best. Having said that I pretty much agree with everything else in your post except not inlcluding Troy Murphy in the list of those who have outperformed Battier from a lower spot in that draft! I was hoping the ROX would take Jefferson, Johnson, Richardson or Murphy that year and it is painful to be reminded we gave up THREE picks for a guy who's doing himself in public while tokin' a doob...
Murphy? Fantasy stat padder who plays below avg D and never helped the team make the playoffs once. Same goes with Randolph. You don't think if West had offered to trade Battier for either of these two guys and asked for, say, a lotto protected 1st rounder their current team wouldn't have pissed themselves in joy?
Really, man, the phrase has nothing to do with Parker's color whatsoever. And I don't think Troy Murphy is better than Battier. He's on a bad team. Battier had Gasol in Memphis.
The hoopsworld article was a great read. I'm hard-pressed to think of any role players in the last several years that have been as important as Battier. Some comparables that come to mind: Bruce Bowen Mario Elie Sam Cassell (the 2 years we won the championship) Tayshaun Prince Bobby Jackson (when he was healthy with the Kings) Joe Johnson (when he was in PHX) Honestly, I can't think of anybody else.
I find this dangerously close to inferring that masturbating in public while smoking a doob makes someone somehow inferior to those who choose public abstenance. You, sir, are walking a dangerous line... Next you will be insulting those of us who say goodnight to our girlfriends by firing a loving warning shot in their general direction.
